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Tier Drafting or Overall Drafting?

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Re: Tier Drafting or Overall Drafting?

Postby Yoda » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:33 pm

jake_harv88 wrote:
Ender wrote:Positional scarcity only exists in shallow leagues. If you are in a league with CI/MI/UT generally speaking C is the only scarce position. In a vanilla 12 team yahoo league it does have meaning. In a 4 team league it would be incredibly important.

Really all depends on your league settings.



I word "huh" comes to mind here. Are you sure you didn't mean that position scarcity only exists in larger leagues?

The only way I can see what you mean is if you argue that position scarcity exists at all positions in larger leagues because there are enough teams to take alot of talent at any position (if I said that correctly)...


Yeah that is what I was going to say also. In my 20 team league, you want to make sure you grab top 10-12 player at each starting position at SS, 2B, C because the drop off happens quick once the top guys are gone.
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Re: Tier Drafting or Overall Drafting?

Postby Ender » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:52 pm

Yoda wrote:
jake_harv88 wrote:
Ender wrote:Positional scarcity only exists in shallow leagues. If you are in a league with CI/MI/UT generally speaking C is the only scarce position. In a vanilla 12 team yahoo league it does have meaning. In a 4 team league it would be incredibly important.

Really all depends on your league settings.



I word "huh" comes to mind here. Are you sure you didn't mean that position scarcity only exists in larger leagues?

The only way I can see what you mean is if you argue that position scarcity exists at all positions in larger leagues because there are enough teams to take alot of talent at any position (if I said that correctly)...


Yeah that is what I was going to say also. In my 20 team league, you want to make sure you grab top 10-12 player at each starting position at SS, 2B, C because the drop off happens quick once the top guys are gone.


Ok well in a 20 team league I could see that being true, but in a 12-14 team league with MI/CI/UT there are enough players at every position to get a full time starter. The extra CI/OF get spread out into the utility slots and the lowest level player in every position in generally about the same. I'm going to have to pick someone in the 20th round and all of the players left are going to be roughly the same value regardless of positions at that point.

In a 12 team league without MI/CI and 3 OF you run out of mid range MI and still have loads of mid range CI and OF left so MI become more valuable. If you go out on the free agent list in a league like that you'll see extremely strong options for CI/OF still but just mediocre options for MI.

On my sheet with no positional scarcity modifier I have 19 CI worth a 6th round pick or higher in a 14 team league. There are only 17 MI worth a 6th round pick or higher. But then there are 15 CI worth a 7th-12th round pick and only 10 MI. There are more MI worth 13-20 round pick than CI and in a deeper league this is where it 'evens out'.

If this cheat sheet were for a 20 team league I would think that It would look differently, never played in one.
Last edited by Ender on Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tier Drafting or Overall Drafting?

Postby jake_harv88 » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:54 pm

Ender I'm still confused about your point. Is there position scarcity in large leagues or small leagues?

You second post seems to contradict yourself :-?
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Re: Tier Drafting or Overall Drafting?

Postby Ender » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:57 pm

There is position scarcity in very shallow and very deep leagues (apparently).

The best way to decide is to just look at all the players that you think will be in a starting lineup and then see what the players that don't make a lineup look like.(make sure to include utility). AFter you do that look at what is going to be left at each position, these are your replacement players. If one position stands out as having players that look sad and pathetic compared to the others, then that position is scarce.

In a 12 team default yahoo league I've always found 2B to look sad compared to what was left in OF/CI. In my 14 team leagues with MI/CI they don't look much different than the 1B/3B that are left.
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Re: Tier Drafting or Overall Drafting?

Postby duckbillgates » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:12 pm

It's been a few years since I've drafted from scratch, but I favor a combination of both.

I like to go in with a good top 75 overall to get through the first six rounds of a 12-teamer. Use your head, and be a little flexible, but generally just stick to that.

After the six rounds, that's when it really starts to matter what positions you have left to fill. That's when you shift to the tiers so you know whether to draft a guy or wait two rounds and get someone of comparable value. If you're always snagging the last one or two guys in a tier your targeting, you're doing good.

I think trying to draft from tiers from the beginning would be tough. You have to get the wheels rolling and get a feel for your team first, but you've got to have tiers for the mid to late rounds.
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Re: Tier Drafting or Overall Drafting?

Postby jcook3127 » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:22 pm

I think I understand what Ender was saying...if you play in a 6 man league for example, it becomes much more important (or should I say valuable?) too pick up Utley or a V-Mart

Because everybody is going to get a GOOD player...if you pass on the big 3 third basemen..you only need 3 more guys to fill out all the starters at that position...with Braun, A-Ram, and Atkins...everybody is going to get a guy you'd love

So it's the positions that don't go 6 deep QUALITY guys (catcher, Short Stop, perhaps 2B) you want to put an emphasis on grabbing...so it's almost as if scarcity should play even more into your draft strategy

Meanwhile...in 10-12 team leagues, it seems like scarcity would matter to a lesser extent..as the drop offs will occur at every single position

At some point, 16-18-20 team leagues...it will kick back in because then you get to an even greater drop off...
Why don't they just get a house that's already painted?
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Re: Tier Drafting or Overall Drafting?

Postby Field » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:27 pm

I think tier drafting is a crucial part of draft success. Even if you don't overtly implement it, it's important to understand the concept. I find that you can use tier drafting strategies without even taking the time to physically outline each position tier as long as you are familar enough with all of the players - a sort of eye-ball test. It really helps you put together a better, more-balanced team and helps during in-draft decision making when there is a time crunch. I also find it helps in determing whether or not to draft a hitter or pitcher in the middle rounds.
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Re: Tier Drafting or Overall Drafting?

Postby glcmustliveon » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:14 am

I love tiers, but I understand, and may implement, what some of you guys are saying. Maybe with the high end players going in the top 75 picks overall production, because it is so drastic, is more important than position scarcity. At a certain point scarcity becomes paramount when comparing hordes of similar producing players. Tiers are especially good at helping me find value in a draft, and by the same token tiers prevent me from reaching for a player too early.
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Re: Tier Drafting or Overall Drafting?

Postby AKhomebrewer » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:40 am

Combination, which seems to be shared by a fair percentage of owners here.
I start with an overall list, but it only goes 100 deep (and typically I've tossed it aside well before I reach the end).
After 5-6 rounds I'm usually into the tiered positional list, where it's easier to quickly recognize value/positional need/draft-room trends, etc.
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Re: Tier Drafting or Overall Drafting?

Postby BigMusky » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:10 am

I am surprised no one has mention Average Draft Position into there rankings. I always put this down so I know what to expect to fall to me with each pick. I then really focus my research on those players and map out who I expect to pick. This way I am taking into account my tiers before the chaos of the draft.
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