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trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

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Re: trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

Postby converge241 » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:43 am

Awful trade IMO but I wouldnt protest/veto if I was in that league

Beltran took forever to get on the field in Spring Training and he hasnt exactly been Cal Ripken past few years

Longoria could do what Braun did or more. Bonderman may have put the 07 injury behind him and on that Tigers team win 20 games etc

guy getting Beltran could really have it blow up in his face

Just because I may not personally agree that all those elements may come to happen, doesnt mean that they couldnt
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Re: trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

Postby Russell James » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:57 pm

I don't know Torr. I can see the logic in that system, but once again I think there is a problem when other players slap values on players on other rosters.

I do like how the Commissioner said, "If you think Ramirez is worth more then offer him more." Basically saying, if that is all he can get for Han-Ram and he is willing to part with him then go for it.
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Re: trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

Postby Torr » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:20 pm

Russell James wrote:I don't know Torr. I can see the logic in that system, but once again I think there is a problem when other players slap values on players on other rosters.

I do like how the Commissioner said, "If you think Ramirez is worth more then offer him more." Basically saying, if that is all he can get for Han-Ram and he is willing to part with him then go for it.


It's not perfect for sure... but it kinda safeguards us from people refusing trades just because they don't want people to make any good trades at all. We wanted to be able to allow teams to to "get over" on another team by convincing them to downgrade in a trade based on need. It's worked for us but we all know each other in real life which helps alot with league management. It's not the "best" solution (stealing trades kinda feels dirty at times) but rather just one possible solution that I thought I would throw out there. ;-)
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Re: trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

Postby cwrtlm » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:58 am

Just an update this trade of Beltran for Longoria/Bonderman was vetoed, as have been 3 other of my trades. Hart for Bedard, Bonderman/Molina for McCann and A. Jones, P. Hughes, Weeks for Crawford/Ichiro (different league). This spring has been the year of the vetoed trade for me. I have played Fantasy Football for the past five years and have never seen one trade vetoed. This is my 2nd year of Fantasy Baseball and have seen probably 20 trades vetoed in all of my different leagues. I don't know if that has anything to do with it or if the people I play with pay more attention to baseball or what. A side question how many league members votes should make a trade vetoed by the league. One new league I am in this year has 2 votes makes a trade vetoed, 8 teams in the league. Most leagues I have been in make it atleast half the league, so 4 in an 8 teamer, 5 in a 10 and so on. What have you all seen?
C- Hundley, Iannetta
1b- Wallace
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OF- Bay, Hart, Pagan, Smith, Francisco, Ankiel
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Re: trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

Postby Matthias » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:54 am

Most of what I've seen has been a majority of the owners not involved in the trade. So it's a 10-man league, that means 5 out of 8.

As previously discussed, move to commissioner review. It will cut down on the vetoes significantly.
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Re: trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

Postby chairshot » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:10 am

Matthias wrote:Most of what I've seen has been a majority of the owners not involved in the trade. So it's a 10-man league, that means 5 out of 8.

As previously discussed, move to commissioner review. It will cut down on the vetoes significantly.


This is mostly what I've seen, as well - majority of teams *not* involved in the deal.

Two votes in an 8 team league sounds fishy to me. All you need are 2 owners who are friends to make a pact that they will veto trades that either one feels hurts their own team. You are basically asking for collusion between 2 teams if you put a veto rule like that in place.

Even if there isn't straight up collusion, it's not uncommon for there to be at least 2 casual/less educated/ignorant owners in a league and that can easily ruin any deal.

I don't see how *any* trade ever gets done in a league like that.

Get a good commissioner and move to his review with guidelines that he will take into account the comments of the league in making his decision.

If you really have to use league voting and you have a more experienced league, have it set up where the league *can* vote on trades. However, if they vote to veto the deal, then it goes to a 3 non-involved owner panel that makes the final and binding decision. But not every league has enough experienced guys that are trustworthy to do that.

And if your league really can't make either of those options work, just go with an independent trade review service. There are couple of them available at reasonable pricing.

Straight league voting is getting to be a little old hat. There are better options out there.
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Re: trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

Postby Kimbos Beard » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:25 pm

Just wanted to throw in my two cents here. I actually like league voting. I play in a 10 team league with league voting 5 of 8 necessary to veto. I would say that the managers in my league are competent. With competent managers who can see both sides of the trade and analyze most trades go through.

I also disagree with the idea of only veto for collusion. I agree with what I think Matthias said about "collusion by ignorance". If you in the pre season trade away say David Wright for Pedro Feliz and Livan Hernandez, even if there is no collusion I would still think that is a vetoable trade. Making drastically uneven trades hurts the whole league, because now the team that got David Wright essentially had 2 first round picks in the draft.

I know there is a feeling that some managers just get angry because they did not make the trade themselves and veto it, and that does happen sometimes. On the other hand I shouldn't have to spend my time making ridiculous offers to all the teams in the league because one of them might be stupid enough to take it.
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Re: trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

Postby Motown Blues » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:23 pm

David Wright for Pedro Feliz and Livan Hernandez, even if there is no collusion I would still think that is a vetoable trade.


If this type of trade has EVER happened out of ignorance and not collusion, then vetoing should not be the primary issue for you to discuss...you need to talk about finding different people to play fantasy baseball with. :-b
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Re: trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

Postby Matthias » Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:33 pm

Motown Blues wrote:
David Wright for Pedro Feliz and Livan Hernandez, even if there is no collusion I would still think that is a vetoable trade.

If this type of trade has EVER happened out of ignorance and not collusion, then vetoing should not be the primary issue for you to discuss...you need to talk about finding different people to play fantasy baseball with. :-b

That's true. And that's why I don't veto trades in the leagues I set up; I only invite people I know and who are competent.

But every once in a while you get roped into a league by a friend that is full of yahoos who do trades that are really ridiculous.
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Re: trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

Postby Russell James » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:27 pm

If you in the pre season trade away say David Wright for Pedro Feliz and Livan Hernandez, even if there is no collusion I would still think that is a vetoable trade.


Thought I would chime in again.

It sounds like you play with a bunch of idiots to be quite honest. Find yourself a better league.
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