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trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

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Re: trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

Postby phillyphan12 » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:19 pm

i wouldnt veto as i think its just one guy being in love with a young rookie and doing anything to trade for him...no collusion though so i wouldnt veto.
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Re: trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

Postby Russell James » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:21 pm

I tend to play in leagues that are very competitive and don't have many newbies, however when the occasional newbie comes into a league I sure don't mind taking advantage of him if he/she lets me. But usually the guys/girls I go up against know their stuff well.

If someone is dumb enough to give me Millar for ARod then they should suffer. That is how I feel about this trade. It should not be vetoed unless there is obvious collusion. Even if it pisses you off to see it.

Everyone assigns different values to players so the ADP argument is just absurd in my humble opinion. I can assign my own values to players, thank you very much. I don't need someone in my league assigning values to my players and thwarting my trades because it doesn't meet their standards. It is MY team.
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Re: trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

Postby Matthias » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:29 pm

mpoland92 wrote:Matthias-

I dont know if you like to be a d**k to everyone or what, but he asked for advice and I gave him my OPINION, thats it... I am no expert and neither are you...

You don't need to be an expert to know that Beltran is an elite player and Bonderman and Langoria are just above replacement-value. You just need to be awake.

Anyway, who knows: Bonderman could win 20 games, Longoria the ROTY, and Beltran breaks his leg in week 3. :-b Then is it a "fair" trade? Whatever. The point's been made by others.

You know what? Even if that happens, this trade still sucks. You don't judge trades based off of what happens in the future; you judge them based off of the information that is currently available. And at currently available information, it's a rip-off that is appropriate to be vetoed in a league-veto situation. Or at least someone vetoing it is not worth crying about.
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Re: trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

Postby Russell James » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:55 pm

You know what? Even if that happens, this trade still sucks. You don't judge trades based off of what happens in the future; you judge them based off of the information that is currently available.


....whatever
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Re: trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

Postby cwrtlm » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:06 pm

Sorry to cause such an uproar. In a league where the Commish handles all of the trades what keeps the commish from being shady? Do you have a rotating Commish? I am commish of a league and I always worry that the owners will think I am fleecing someone or something. Do you ask that all protests be posted on a message board and then the commish rules? I know in my football league last year we had byes so I was on bye the 1st week, that was the schedule ESPN pumped out. Well that meant that I had 1st chance at waivers, I picked up Derrick Ward and some of the owners complained. I told them I had no idea that was going to happen, so next year I have to make sure that I am not on bye the 1st week!
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Re: trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

Postby Matthias » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:29 pm

Russell James wrote:
You know what? Even if that happens, this trade still sucks. You don't judge trades based off of what happens in the future; you judge them based off of the information that is currently available.


....whatever

As you say. Your guys' argument is, in a nutshell, that no trade should ever be vetoed because anything could happen in the future that could turn the trade, "fair". So as much as you huff and puff, it doesn't matter what the trade is, your answer is the same.
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Re: trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

Postby Matthias » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:35 pm

cwrtlm wrote:Sorry to cause such an uproar. In a league where the Commish handles all of the trades what keeps the commish from being shady? Do you have a rotating Commish? I am commish of a league and I always worry that the owners will think I am fleecing someone or something. Do you ask that all protests be posted on a message board and then the commish rules? I know in my football league last year we had byes so I was on bye the 1st week, that was the schedule ESPN pumped out. Well that meant that I had 1st chance at waivers, I picked up Derrick Ward and some of the owners complained. I told them I had no idea that was going to happen, so next year I have to make sure that I am not on bye the 1st week!

Play with friends; treat everyone fairly; make clear what the rules are ahead of time; and you'll never have a problem.
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Re: trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

Postby Motown Blues » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:39 pm

...what keeps the commish from being shady?


Nothing. But anyone in the league has the right to NOT be in the league the following year. You play long enough, the only leagues you are in (or actually fork over $$) are the ones you trust the commish. Or you have developed a league long enough AS a commish, that you have proven to be honest.

You know what? Even if that happens, this trade still sucks. You don't judge trades based off of what happens in the future; you judge them based off of the information that is currently available. And at currently available information, it's a rip-off that is appropriate to be vetoed in a league-veto situation. Or at least someone vetoing it is not worth crying about.


I completely agree with you: if you can veto, why not. I would not trade away Beltran, even if my pitching sucked. But that' s not MY point; perhaps I was not poignant enough: a guy has his own team, perhaps spent his own $$, and can do what he will. He may very well feel good about that trade; I could make a case for it (Bonderman has tons o' talent, Longoria has big hype...Beltran tends to be a bit overrated and has had both knees scoped). He may turn out to be a genius, getting two for one. If my hypothetical turned out to be true, you could look back and wonder why it was vetoed it in the first place. Would you veto an injured Beltran for Bondo and Longoria? Of course you would, and you would be making MY point. Unless there is collusion, this and other "lopsided" trades should happen, because real-life has to play out, and if a manager wants to be stupid (aka, "take a chance"), you have to let him. The trade sucks? Sure it does. If you aren't the beneficiary. :-D
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Re: trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

Postby Motown Blues » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:44 pm

So as much as you huff and puff, it doesn't matter what the trade is, your answer is the same.


I would agree with this statement. As commish, I would NOT veto this Beltran trade unless I legitimately understood that collusion was occurring. If you are referencing an A-Rod for Neifi Perez straight up scenario, and one dood is just an idiot, well...that is unlikely, and I have yet to be a part of that kind of situation. But if it did happen, I would assume player-dumping (i.e., collusion) and veto it.
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Re: trade Vetoable or is my league Veto happy?

Postby Matthias » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:12 am

Here's the two questions to be posed.

1) Ok, forget about ADP. When were the 3 players involved drafted since this is a redraft league?
2) If the draft positions were vastly different, what happened between now and the draft that the owner decided to have a change of heart on Beltran?

I understand the whole, "It's my team; I value players how I want" kind of argument. And if someone wants to draft every player from the 1942 NY Mets as his team, that's fine by me. It is his team. But once he starts trading, then it's not only his team that he's shifting; he's also shifting my league. If I lose because he made an idiotic trade, he did more than screw himself: he screwed both of us. And that's why trades are different from the draft. Stupid drafters just make the league one team smaller. And they can sit in the corner and play with their roster all that they want. But it starts having effects beyond his own team once he starts giving strength to a team outside his own... it starts changing the league.

This would be a much more difficult trade to value in a keeper league or if Beltran did have injury concerns or even if it was midway through the season and people had obvious needs. But when a trade is made, what, two? three? four? weeks after the draft and no games have been played, it just looks bad and I'm not going to say that someone is wrong to exercise the right to veto that they've been given.
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