Going Pitcher Heavy in the Draft - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Going Pitcher Heavy in the Draft

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Going Pitcher Heavy in the Draft

Postby Russell James » Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:41 pm

I hope this is the right forum. I am still new to the site so if I am wrong please forgive me.

I implemented a new strategy last season and ended up winning both leagues that I used it in. I drafted nothing but pitchers, outfielders and a catcher during the first 10 rounds. Then proceeded to fill out my roster with guys who hit for very good averages.

Every league is different and you must draft according to the settings. In these particular H2H leagues the pitching stats and hitting stats were similar.

By implementing this strategy I ended up causing owners to change their draft strategies. By the time round 5 rolled around I had locked up 3 of the best pitchers in the league. By the end of round 10 I had 6 great pitchers and 4 consistent outfielders.

I drafted the same way throughout the draft. The lowest batting average I drafted was .285. Towards the end I drafted a few closers.

I was competitive in every stat, even though I only won HRs a handful of times. However, players had a hard time competing with my average, OBP, H, R and I rarely lost pitching stats. I ended up destroying both of the leagues with that strategy.

Just wondering if anyone has ever tried it before with similar success?

I will be doing applying this strategy again in a draft tomorrow to see if it works again or if last year was just a fluke.
Russell James
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 352
Joined: 6 Mar 2008
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Going Pitcher Heavy in the Draft

Postby horatio » Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:10 pm

I think you're on to something bro.
horatio
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

Mock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 826
(Past Year: 2)
Joined: 16 May 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Going Pitcher Heavy in the Draft

Postby WyldStallyn » Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:35 pm

im more familiar with roto leagues, but have done some h2h (1st and 3rd place). on my winning team i had 2 aces, 3 great closers, and many guys with good avg who could get sb's and hr's (with the exception of dunn, but hey, obp was a cat). i do think its important to have 2 aces. theyre more likely to have good, solid outings which is key in h2h, where one implosion can ruin your pitching cats for the week. but i feel its likely that you got rather lucky with some of the hitters you drafted late. care to share your team?
WyldStallyn
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Cafeholic
Posts: 1927
Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Going Pitcher Heavy in the Draft

Postby OneLoveBoomer » Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:06 pm

Russell James wrote:I hope this is the right forum. I am still new to the site so if I am wrong please forgive me.

I implemented a new strategy last season and ended up winning both leagues that I used it in. I drafted nothing but pitchers, outfielders and a catcher during the first 10 rounds. Then proceeded to fill out my roster with guys who hit for very good averages.

Every league is different and you must draft according to the settings. In these particular H2H leagues the pitching stats and hitting stats were similar.

By implementing this strategy I ended up causing owners to change their draft strategies. By the time round 5 rolled around I had locked up 3 of the best pitchers in the league. By the end of round 10 I had 6 great pitchers and 4 consistent outfielders.

I drafted the same way throughout the draft. The lowest batting average I drafted was .285. Towards the end I drafted a few closers.

I was competitive in every stat, even though I only won HRs a handful of times. However, players had a hard time competing with my average, OBP, H, R and I rarely lost pitching stats. I ended up destroying both of the leagues with that strategy.

Just wondering if anyone has ever tried it before with similar success?

I will be doing applying this strategy again in a draft tomorrow to see if it works again or if last year was just a fluke.


Hey, good post, very thorough. Of course horatio responds positively -- I've seen him adopt similar strategies in several couchmanagers.com mock drafts ;-D

Here's my take on this: I don't like it too much, but you've still got something worthwhile. The biggest mistake I see from players who take Johan Santana in the first round is that they think they're all set on pitching so they go hitting for the next 12 rounds, only to grab stinky pitchers later on. Doing so pretty much nullifies the point of drafting Santana -- on the average, the resulting pitching staff is still stinky. (props to Lenny Melnick for articulating this point many times -- it makes perfect sense and I agree wholeheartedly).

But, in your strategy you're not making this mistake. You're going pitching full steam ahead, which is the only way to go pitching. You'll have an awesome staff, and lord knows there are just as many P categories as there are offensive categories. The other bonus is that there are always teams that end up with nada for pitching after the draft, and they'll likely be willing to pay good value for any pitchers you have that you decide to send off. Not a bad plan overall.

That said, I still say go hitting, then pitching. The basic reasons are (1) that's what most people do, which means that great pitchers are still available later anyway and (2) the resulting teams just tend to look better, in my humble opinion. I won't bore you with the played-out "well hitters hit every day and pitchers pitch once a week" routine.

Consider:
Code: Select all
Pitching Strat                           Hitting Strat
1.10 Johan Santana                       1.10 Ryan Howard
2.2   Jake Peavy                         2.2 Ryan Braun
3.10  Garrett Atkins                     3.10 Garrett Atkins
4.2  Brandon Webb                        4.2 Adam Dunn
5.10  Adrian Gonzalez                    5.10 Justin Verlander
6.2  Hunter Pence                        6.2  Carlos Zambrano
7.10 Miguel Tejada                       7.10 Felix Hernandez (or Roy Oswalt, etc)


Give or take some draft pick choices, the pitching strategy starts out with:

Bats:
G. Atkins (3B)
A. Gonzalez (1B)
H. Pence (OF)
M. Tejada (SS)

Pitchers:
J. Santana
J. Peavy
B. Webb

While the hitting strategy starts out with:

Bats:
R. Howard (1B)
R. Braun (OF)
G. Atkins (3B)
A. Dunn (OF)

Pitchers:
J. Verlander
C. Zambrano
F. Hernandez (or Oswalt, etc)


The point? Overall, I'd say that the batting strategy has a sizable lead over the pitching strategy in the hitting categories -- more so than does the pitching strategy have a lead in the pitching categories. Verlander/Zambrano/Hernandez is a great staff (not the 'perfect' staff of the pitching strategy though), and Howard/Braun/Atkins/Dunn is a major Power (and some speed) contender that by far exceeds the pitcher's hitting team.

I generally do not like the pitchers first strategy.
OneLoveBoomer
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 6184
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The offseason.

Re: Going Pitcher Heavy in the Draft

Postby AussieDodger » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:49 pm

OneLoveBoomer wrote:The biggest mistake I see from players who take Johan Santana in the first round is that they think they're all set on pitching so they go hitting for the next 12 rounds, only to grab stinky pitchers later on. Doing so pretty much nullifies the point of drafting Santana -- on the average, the resulting pitching staff is still stinky.


Exactly ;-D

I am trying this in a cafe H2H league this year, we are in round 16 and so far I have..........

SP: Johan Santana NYM
SP: Jake Peavy SD
RP: Jonathan Papelbon BOS
RP: Huston Street OAK
P: Pedro Martinez NYM
P: Jonathan Broxton LAD
P:
P:

That's a fairly reliable (assuming Pedros fit) staff, so I can just leave them in there and only have to worry about my hitters.
I know I wouldn't want to face it.
Image
AussieDodger
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterEagle Eye
Posts: 11357
(Past Year: 19)
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: What do you mean, Flash Gordon approaching?

Re: Going Pitcher Heavy in the Draft

Postby hot4tx » Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:58 pm

AussieDodger wrote:I am trying this in a cafe H2H league this year, we are in round 16 and so far I have..........

SP: Johan Santana NYM
SP: Jake Peavy SD
RP: Jonathan Papelbon BOS
RP: Huston Street OAK
P: Pedro Martinez NYM
P: Jonathan Broxton LAD
P:
P:

That's a fairly reliable (assuming Pedros fit) staff, so I can just leave them in there and only have to worry about my hitters.
I know I wouldn't want to face it.


Here's the problem with that.... say I went hitting heavy and ended up getting good SP depth in say rounds 8-16... I could end up with a staff of
Lincecum
Myers
Cain
Billingsley
Soria
Hudson
BJ Ryan
B Wilson
D Lowe

While I wouldn't have a true Ace by any means, my staff could compete with you in HTH with your Aces plus the late-round inconsistent guys just because I'd have more depth in good pitchers. In roto I could use my depth to allow me to start my pitchers against preferable matchups, use MRPs and end up with similar stats per IP as your aces. And in theory my hitters would destroy yours, something you can't as easily make up by rotating hitters in and out.

Again, I'm not saying "don't draft a SP until the 8th/9th round. I'd draft them when I find value, but going for pitching heavy early doesn't add up when you compare them to other teams where managers are drafting for value.
hot4tx
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1933
(Past Year: 135)
Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Going Pitcher Heavy in the Draft

Postby bigh0rt » Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:01 pm

Russell James wrote:I hope this is the right forum. I am still new to the site so if I am wrong please forgive me.

I implemented a new strategy last season and ended up winning both leagues that I used it in. I drafted nothing but pitchers, outfielders and a catcher during the first 10 rounds. Then proceeded to fill out my roster with guys who hit for very good averages.

Every league is different and you must draft according to the settings. In these particular H2H leagues the pitching stats and hitting stats were similar.

By implementing this strategy I ended up causing owners to change their draft strategies. By the time round 5 rolled around I had locked up 3 of the best pitchers in the league. By the end of round 10 I had 6 great pitchers and 4 consistent outfielders.

I drafted the same way throughout the draft. The lowest batting average I drafted was .285. Towards the end I drafted a few closers.

I was competitive in every stat, even though I only won HRs a handful of times. However, players had a hard time competing with my average, OBP, H, R and I rarely lost pitching stats. I ended up destroying both of the leagues with that strategy.

Just wondering if anyone has ever tried it before with similar success?

I will be doing applying this strategy again in a draft tomorrow to see if it works again or if last year was just a fluke.

Who were they? If they were Santana, Peavy, and Sabathia/Webb or something you were ok, but you had an equal chance at taking Carpenter or Zito or Blanton or another flop. I like your thinking, and strategizing to try and beat your opponents, but pitching is just far too volatile compared to hitting for me to want to rely on it. Furthermore, I think this strategy would be far less effective in a Roto league than in your H2H scenarios. Furthermore, even with a studly pitching staff, running into an opponent with several 2-start pitchers can foil that just as easily.
Image
bigh0rt
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 24815
(Past Year: 360)
Joined: 3 Jun 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Crowding The Plate

Re: Going Pitcher Heavy in the Draft

Postby Yoda » Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:02 pm

Draft value. You have to be flexible depending on what is available and how people are drafting.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
Yoda
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 21344
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: 15th green...

Re: Going Pitcher Heavy in the Draft

Postby da bears » Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:34 pm

The reason for your success seems to be more based on the rules of the league. It allowed you to wait longer on offense because there was categories like H and OBP which you can draft later than trying to get a 50 hr guy like you need in standard leagues. If it is a regular 5x5 league then this doesnt work nearly as well. What were the actual league settings?
da bears
College Coach
College Coach


Posts: 339
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Home Cafe: Football

Re: Going Pitcher Heavy in the Draft

Postby Pochucker » Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:52 pm

I dont like that strategy --especially this year. There are lots and lots of good SP this year . If I saw you doing that in draft my strategy would be draft 6 offense then 4/5 SP consecutively ,my staff would be more than competitive in h2h league and I would have large edge offensively.
Pochucker
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 679
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 4 May 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Next

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: unioreimi, Yahoo [Bot] and 11 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Friday, Aug. 29
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Minnesota at Baltimore
(7:05 pm)
Cincinnati at Pittsburgh
(7:05 pm)
NY Yankees at Toronto
(7:07 pm)
Philadelphia at NY Mets
(7:10 pm)
Boston at Tampa Bay
(7:10 pm)
indoors
Miami at Atlanta
(7:35 pm)
Cleveland at Kansas City
(8:10 pm)
Texas at Houston
(8:10 pm)
Detroit at Chi White Sox
(8:10 pm)
Chi Cubs at St. Louis
(8:15 pm)
Colorado at Arizona
(9:40 pm)
Oakland at LA Angels
(10:05 pm)
LA Dodgers at San Diego
(10:10 pm)
Washington at Seattle
(10:10 pm)
Milwaukee at San Francisco
(10:15 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact