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Fear & Loathing in Cincinnati

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Fear & Loathing in Cincinnati

Postby StlSluggers » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:34 pm

Rather than start a new thread for each idiotic Dustyism, I'd like everyone to post all of them here. I'll try to update this initial thread, because I really feel this level of incompetence should be cataloged. The stuff coming out of his mouth is just absolutely mind-boggling.

The Dusty Baker Paradox
Baker has repeatedly talked about the desire to have a do-it-all leadoff hitter with speed. What kinds of hitters is he looking for further down the lineup? Does he want guys with lofty on-base percentages? The answer will likely not sit well with fans of the book "Moneyball," because Baker said he believes the OBP statistic is overvalued.

"I'm big on driving in runs and scoring runs," Baker said. "Guys in the middle should score about close to equal to what they drive in. On-base percentage, that's fine and dandy. But a lot of times guys get so much into on-base percentage that they cease to swing. It's becoming a little bit out of control.

"What you do is run the pitcher's count up, that helps," Baker said. "You put him in the stretch, that helps. But your job in the middle is to either score them or drive them in. The name of the game is scoring runs. Sometimes, you get so caught up in on-base percentage that you're clogging up the bases."


When prompted if the two Dominican pitchers would begin the season as starters with Aaron Harang and Bronson Arroyo, new manager Dusty Baker didn't exactly say yes, but he didn't say no either.

"You want me to say it, or are you going to say it?" Baker told the Cincinnati Enquirer. "They're pitching like they belong alongside [Aaron] Harang and [Bronson] Arroyo in the rotation. They're dealing.

"They came in ready to pitch. They played winter ball, so they're ahead -- not so much with velocity but with command. That's what you need. They're pounding the strike zone. If you walk people, you have no chance. If you get behind people, you have a little chance."

Which one is it, Dusty. Do walks have value or not???

Dusty's New Strategy: Miss Two Bunts Then Hit a GW HR

First Time...

To set up the situation, it's the bottom of the 9th with 2 on and no one out. Dusty gives EE the sac bunt sign even though EE has never, ever, ever laid down a sac bunt in the Bigs. Of course, EE fails miserably at the bunt attempts. So on a 1-2 count, what's he do? You guessed it. He hits a 3-run HR to bail Dusty out. Or as another writer put it... "Dusty Baker Fails at Losing After Edwin Encarnacion Bails Him Out."

Asked about the situation later, Dusty claims prescience in a way that only Dusty can...

Dusty Baker wrote:"You can't let him swing in that situation," Baker said. "He was struggling. I told (coach Chris Speier), 'I kind of hope he doesn't get it down so can hit a three-run homer, and he hit a three-run homer."

Say what you will about Encarnacion, he hits with runners on. He led the team with a .360 average last year.

"Being on the other side, he was one of the guys I didn't want to see up there in that situation," Baker said. "He's a clutch man."

The writer of that article summed it up best: "It's like trying to explain colors to a blind man."

Get out the Dusty Dice, people, because that's the only way you can possibly explain what happened on April 2nd, 2008.


Second Time...
With the Reds trailing by one run in the ninth inning Saturday, Adam Dunn's initial intention with runners on first and second and one out was to bunt his teammates into scoring position. After two unsuccessful sacrifice attempts, a frustrated Dunn chose to swing away. Dunn's backup plan sailed 449 feet into the right-field Sun Deck for a three-run walk-off home run...

And if you don't believe it, here's the proof:


It boggles the mind people. It boggles the mind...


Joey Votto takes too many walks

Reds manager Dusty Baker has already decided he doesn't like Joey Votto's approach at the plate. The approach that led to a .321/.360/.548 line and 17 RBI in 84 at-bats following his callup last season. "He needs to swing some more," Baker said. "I talked to him about that. Strikeouts aren't the only criteria. I'd like to see him more aggressive." Baker doesn't want Votto, Adam Dunn or anyone else taking called third strikes. "I really, really hate the called third strike," Baker said. "I hate that. You're guess and you ain't ready to hit." That Scott Hatteberg rarely strikes out makes Votto a particularly risky pick this year.


Miss a game? You're injury prone...

Bruce wasn't happy that manager Dusty Baker came out and said he had a history of leg problems. "As far as professional baseball, I missed three or four games at the end of the year with a hamstring," he said. "I played 133 games last year. In Dayton (in 2006), I missed one game." Baker said Bruce still had a chance of making the team even after the Corey Patterson signing.


When a player says he's ready, just wait a day.

Reds manager Dusty Baker wants to make sure that Bruce doesn't try to come back too soon. "Bruce asked to pinch-hit [on Tuesday]. I said, 'No,'" Baker said. "From my experience, if they say, 'I'm ready today,' I wait until tomorrow. Invariably, I'm not lying, the first at-bat they'll have to beat out an infield hit -- every time. Then you're like, no, don't run."

No source provided

Baker judges by his senses
Knowing what makes his players tick more important than their stats

The best baseball managing is done by the seat of your pants, using good, old-fashioned, pre-sabermetric logic. That’s another reason to like Dusty Baker. (Beyond his knowledge of single-malt Scotches and Van Morrison lyrics, which is merely astounding and downright Renaissance.) If Baker manages by a book, it’s one inside his head, not one written by Bill James.

...Anyone with a laptop can locate the Web site baseball- reference.com and sound like an expert. Anyone with a library card can pick up one of James’ mind-numbing baseball “abstracts,” in which the author makes the game sound like a first cousin to biomechanical engineering.

...Numbers are fun to look at but dangerous to dwell on. Baker understands this. If Dunn walks 30 fewer times this year, he’ll drive in 15 more runs. His on-base percentage will dip. Oh, no.

If Votto takes fewer first-pitch strikes, his run production will improve.

And so on. Here’s a stat: Wins as manager: Dusty Baker, 1,162; Bill James, 0.


"Dusty rules, stat heads drool." - IllinoisBandit

Baker wouldn’t mind if Phillips walked a little more, especially considering he isn’t a “base clogger”; he stole 32 bases last season. But getting on base—especially getting on base by a walk—is clearly secondary to Baker. He wants Phillips to be aggressive. Baker wants him to swing the bat.

“If you’re supposed to be up there driving in runs ... a run producer, he ain’t up there to get his on-base percentage up. He’s in there to drive in runs,” says Baker. “If you’re passing it on to the next hitter, a lot of times, he’s not as good of a hitter as you. Otherwise ... he’d be hitting ahead of you.”

...Analysts can give you some great arguments that hitting order, as a whole, is vastly overrated anyway, an argument that might let Baker off the hook in his latest run-in with the stats guys. But don’t tell that to Baker, though.

“I heard this thing today, man: The lineup really doesn’t matter. That’s [poppycock],” Baker says. “I love stat guys, but statheads have gotten way, way out there.”*


You can slump and not strike out at the same time?

Baker was not aware of Patterson's slump until a writer informed him Sunday.

"Really?" said Baker. "I did not know that. He hasn't been striking out a lot so a long stretch of no hits is not as noticeable as when a guy piles up the strikeouts."

Unless Freel hits for the cycle, drives in four, scores five and makes three stupendous catches, Patterson will soon return. Not Tuesday, though. The Reds face lefthanded Hong-Chih Kuo, so Freel or Norris Hopper will be in center. Or maybe Jerry Hairston, Jr.


Dusty Baker: Total Moron

"This guy is tough on lefties," Baker said. "[Adam] Dunn has been pretty good [against Maholm] and Griff hasn't. I'm just trying to find a way to get some right-handers in there. Griff will be back in there tomorrow. The guy tomorrow, [Zach Duke], has been tough on Dunn. Jerry [Hairston] and [Jeff] Keppinger are just getting their strokes together, and [so is] Edwin [Encarnacion]."

A closer look at the numbers, however, and that reasoning didn't add up. Dunn came in 3-for-22 (.136) lifetime against Maholm. Griffey was 5-for-18 (.278) with one home run. Against Duke, Dunn is 5-for-9 (.556) and Griffey is 1-for-6 (.167).

Source coming soon.


Last edited by StlSluggers on Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:40 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Fear & Loathing in Cincinnati

Postby RugbyD » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:42 pm

Dusty wrote:"I really, really hate the called third strike," Baker said. "I hate that. You're guess and you ain't ready to hit."

Pine, meet Dunn's ass.

not really but Dunn takes sooooooo many called 3rds I guess he sucks or something.
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Re: Fear & Loathing in Cincinnati

Postby jcobb79 » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:47 pm

StlSluggers wrote: Sometimes, you get so caught up in on-base percentage that you're clogging up the bases."

Boy having people clogging up the bases is much worse that having your players sitting on the bench because they just SO
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Re: Fear & Loathing in Cincinnati

Postby The Jury » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:02 pm

"But your job in the middle is to either score them or drive them in."

I can see truth in this statement that he makes. While getting on base is good, it may not be optimal to have your 3-4-5 hitters walking too much. They are you best, most productive hitters and the heart of the offense in producing runs. If they're always walking, that put greater responsibility in run production on the following 6-7-8-9 hitters, who are lower in the order in the first place because they simply aren't as good. You DO want your heart of the order driving in runs.
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Re: Fear & Loathing in Cincinnati

Postby Yoda » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:10 pm

Well at least he got his wish with a hacking leadooff guy in Patterson. It is going to suck watching him ruin Votto and Bruce. Hopefully he doesn't completely ruin them.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
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Re: Fear & Loathing in Cincinnati

Postby Matthias » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:29 pm

The best part about the Dusty-isms is that he's been at it for so long. BP catalogued a few back in 2004.

It's called hitting, and it ain't called walking. Do you ever see the top 10 walking? You see top 10 batting average. A lot of those top 10 do walk. But the name of the game is to hit.

This one's sort of funny due to the irony of the Sox wins, who are completely obsessive about OBP... but Dusty stays the same.
Who's been the champions the last seven, eight years? ...Have you ever heard the Yankees talk about on-base percentage and walks? Walks help. But you ain't going to walk across the plate. You're going to hit across the plate. That's the school I come from.

Huh? What problem?
Sooner or later, somebody is going to get hurt, and then they are going to blow it all out of proportion... But go back and look at the overall picture. For a guy who is supposed to have run pitchers into the ground, look around and see our track record of how healthy our pitchers have stayed. Who has had healthier pitchers?
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Re: Fear & Loathing in Cincinnati

Postby cards05 » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:39 pm

Unbelievable. To me, this is all on the Reds' front office. They have one of the best, if not the best, major-league ready minor league systems in all of baseball and they hire the guy notorious for curbing young players' development. Also, there has to be one guy in that office who understands basic sabermetrics who just cringes everytime Dusty talks about how meaningless on base percentage is. Why wasn't this guy more vocal in the hiring process?
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Re: Fear & Loathing in Cincinnati

Postby CheeseBeger » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:44 pm

Who's been the champions the last seven, eight years? ...Have you ever heard the Yankees talk about on-base percentage and walks? Walks help. But you ain't going to walk across the plate. You're going to hit across the plate. That's the school I come from.

I love how if you actually take a look at the Yankees lineup, over half their starters usually have an OBP over .400, and none of the others are below .350
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Re: Fear & Loathing in Cincinnati

Postby AcidRock23 » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:02 pm

Great title for the thread. I think that if Hunter S. Thompson (who grew up in Louisville, BTW, just down the river from Cincy...) were alive, he would be perhaps the best person to cover this story.

I have been inclined to give Baker perhaps some benefit of the doubt, perhaps buy the story that Prior didn't tell them what hurt, that there was something in CPat, etc. With the Reds' system for them to go out and hire Dusty and then SIGN Patterson truly borders on insanity. I was very interested in watching Votto and Bruce but I can see this playing out very poorly for them. Not that I totally mind given that the Reds are in the NL Central but I am not thinking that it's very good for baseball to have guys like that blocked by high-mileage retreads. And I was a pretty big CPat fan while he had some potential, before he got hurt...
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Re: Fear & Loathing in Cincinnati

Postby thedude » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:12 pm

I would be surprised if Dusty started making sense.
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