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Johjima and Mariners Pitching Staff

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Re: Johjima and Mariners Pitching Staff

Postby KronJon » Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:15 pm

colt4523 wrote:I guess a better indicator is to check games that Johjima didn't catch Felix and compare.

Even then, the results would be flawed due to sample size. It could be purely coincidence.
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Re: Johjima and Mariners Pitching Staff

Postby BillyHallDisciple » Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:41 pm

I suppose there might be something to this argument since the M's ranked 22nd in team ERA last season, but I'm wondering how much of it you can really attribute to Johjima, as the M's pitching staff was nothing to write home about anyways last year, outside of Felix.

It will be interesting to watch the situation this year to see how it develops.

My argument earlier was that if you're going to blame Johjima for some of Felix's terrible performances last year, then you should also give him credit for the good ones, right?
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Re: Johjima and Mariners Pitching Staff

Postby Big Pimpin » Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:53 pm

Honestly I think a lot of Felix's struggles last year were due to the pitching coach. The mantra was "establish the fastball early and often" and Felix just got teed off against in the early innings. Once he started mixing his breaking balls in more, especially in the first few innings, things were much better. Anyway, there's a lot of things at work and I wouldn't necessarily pin any of it on Johjima.
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Re: Johjima and Mariners Pitching Staff

Postby FoolOnTheHill » Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:40 pm

My point is that good catchers make a pitching staff better by the way they can expand the strike zone for umps and the way they call a game and relate with the pitchers. Dan Wilson was among the best at this, and Varitek and Posada come to mind too. This is an area where Johjima has struggled as he adapts to the American game. Thiel's column this morning points this out. I don't think you can quantify or prove/disprove it with stats.

I think it's something you have to keep in mind as you evaluate the Mariners staff going into this year. Will Bedard feel comfortable pitching to Joh? My sense is that it will work out OK but I think it's a factor.
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Re: Johjima and Mariners Pitching Staff

Postby colt4523 » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:46 pm

FoolOnTheHill wrote:My point is that good catchers make a pitching staff better by the way they can expand the strike zone for umps and the way they call a game and relate with the pitchers. Dan Wilson was among the best at this, and Varitek and Posada come to mind too. This is an area where Johjima has struggled as he adapts to the American game. Thiel's column this morning points this out. I don't think you can quantify or prove/disprove it with stats.

I think it's something you have to keep in mind as you evaluate the Mariners staff going into this year. Will Bedard feel comfortable pitching to Joh? My sense is that it will work out OK but I think it's a factor.



I just wanted to point out that Posada is terrible at this. He doesn't frame pitches well, doesn't block pitches low and away, and has a terrible habit of coming out of his crouch to receive pitchers. A good example of a catcher that helps his staff is pudge.
90% of my posts are from complaining about my team :)
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Re: Johjima and Mariners Pitching Staff

Postby Field » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:17 pm

The catcher-pitcher relationship makes a difference, the extent of the difference is debatable, but it's still a difference. It's a really under-rated and under-reported part of the game. It probably doesn't impact established pitchers as much as developing pitchers however.
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