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Keeper Rules For Following Season....Help/Advice Much Needed

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Keeper Rules For Following Season....Help/Advice Much Needed

Postby Strained Oblique » Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:54 pm

I know that title may seem a bit off, but what is the best way for myself to set up this new league as far as keeper rules for the following season? We are doing our initial draft here in a few weeks and we are trying to set it up so that you can keep like 5 players off your roster, but should we put any restrictions on it or just make it a flat "Keep Any 5" off your roster?

I have seen things such as doing the initial draft, then the following year they could only keep 1 guy from their top 3 Rounds drafted, and then anyone else they decide to keep has to be moved up 3 rounds from their prior years draft position.

Is there an easy way to make rules for keeper leagues? this is my first so want it to be something all can understand and agree with. It would be a yahoo keeper league so it may be hard to place certain players as keepers in certain rounds next season.

Thoughts?

Will Help In Return!!!
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Re: Keeper Rules For Following Season....Help/Advice Much Needed

Postby talan37 » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:04 pm

There are a couple different ways to do it: You didn't mention whether its a snake or auction but the strategy can be adapted for both.

You can allow any number of keepers, its really up to your preference.

Then you need to determine how long guys can be kept for, and at what penalty if any.(penalties are good)

A typical snake draft setup is that you can keep anyone up to x players, but the next year you need to use y amount higher draft pick. So if you drafted braun in the 20th round last year, you can keep him this year for a 17th round pick, next year for a 14th, then 11th etc.

Many leagues do an increasing penalty, this ensures league turnover and that breakout rookies and prospects aren't kept for many years at almost no cost.

For auction drafts you add some dollar value per year to there keeper cost. So if you got braun for 1$ last year you pay 4$, then 7$.

Some leagues force you to use your first x picks on your keepers, i personally don't like that, but I know people do that.

The higher the penalty numbers the more turnover in your league, the lower the less. Turnover ensures some amount of league parity and hopefully will give everyone a shot to have a chance each year.
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Re: Keeper Rules For Following Season....Help/Advice Much Needed

Postby Strained Oblique » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:01 pm

Yes it would be a snake draft. I like the idea of keepers by penalty so to speak, just curious as to how I can do that since its a yahoo league. What if someone isn't at the live draft or they accidentally key in another player by mistake? It would mess up the entire draft.

I suppose you could just have your five keepers and then keep track of them on paper right? By this I mean that assume we keep 6 keepers. If you took Braun in the 20th this year, even though next year he would be the 17th round pick he would still be kept pretty much in the first 6 rounds because in yahoo you can prerank your players, but it will not let you place them in certain rounds etc.

Does that make sense? I want to do a "Keeper by Penalty" type league for exactly what you stated, turnover in the league and no stashing away for years. Now if I can just come up with a way to do that so its not so confusing come draft day NEXT year.

Thanks for you info, but could really use a solution to that problem......
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Re: Keeper Rules For Following Season....Help/Advice Much Needed

Postby Matthias » Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:22 pm

Here's something I came up with a couple of years ago that might work for you in principle. Essentially, it turns a snake-draft league into an auction-valued league where the price is the round that they're drafted and then increases the longer they're held on to. The reason it may work for you is you don't have to worry about blocking out any particular round for someone who is kept. Everyone decides who their keepers are, you have them do their preranks, and then go from there. You'd have to have players who kept fewer than others draft filler chaff to start off with but you can work that out easy enough.

Hope it helps.

Here's a system I came up with someone else who was thinking of doing non-auction draft keepers for their league. Basically, you create a system of, "keeper points" that each team gets to use each season. They get to choose if they use it on a few high-round draft choices or on a bunch of low-rounders. And they get rewarded more for choosing someone in a late round rather than just saying, "4 keepers." The total, "keeper budget" you can adjust up or down depending on how big of rosters you want people to be able to keep, but I'd suggest 16 points or just slightly higher. If you get to keep all of your big studs, there's no real fun in it for anyone who had a crappy team one year to have the same crappy team in the next.

So here's the system:

1) Have each keeper be worth: 10 - Round they're drafted in. This would make a first round keeper count as 9 points, a 2nd rounder count as 8, etc. There would be a minimum of 1 keeper point for anyone drafted 10th round or after and 2 keeper points for anybody picked up off of the waiver wire to create more of a reward for drafting well versus watching the waiver wire (although picking up Huston Street last year and keeping him for 2 points would still be pretty cheap).

2) Have point escalations each year that you keep somebody of 1, 2, 4, 6, and 6 points per year, meaning the first year you keep someone they're worth their keeper point value. The next year they increase 1 point, the next year 2 more, 4 more, and then 6 every year thereafter.

So a second-round draft pick would be: 8 keeper points the first year he's kept; 9 keeper points the second year; 11 the third; and 15 the fourth.

It also means that a 10th+ round draft pick is equal to a third rounder in 3 years: draft year (0), year 1 (1), year 2 (3), year 3 (7)

3) Have a total keeper budget of 16 points. This would allow you enough points to keep your 1st rounder for 4 years (9, 10, 12, 16) plus their first year in the league/drafting year so 5 years. A 10-rounder you could keep for 5 plus their drafting year: 1, 2, 4, 8, 14. But you'll have them at much cheaper for the first four of those years, so there's incentive to draft Pujols as a rookie, but if he does turn into an absolute stud, other people will get a shot at him after a while.

4) Keeper points / # of years kept obviously transfer along with the player when traded.

The ensuing drafts would be done normally, with the last-place team drafting first or whatever system you set up (some leagues set it up that the #6 team drafts first to create incentive for the bottom teams to continue to compete). You don't need to worry about replacing draft picks because all the price is paid via the keeper price: if someone wants to keep a 1st rounder vs. numerous late-rounders, that's their decision and no need to take away their 1st round draft choice from them, as well. Teams that kept more players will be finished with their draft a round or two earlier: you just skip them once you get to their draft spot until everyone has their roster filled.

The benefits of this system is that each round that a player is drafted in has value: finding someone in the 4th round is better than pulling them out in the 1st. It also allows for greater owner control: they can decide if they want their one super-stud or 3 or 4 bluechips that they found late. It also keeps up interest through the entire draft.

The exact numbers can be played with, obviously, although if I changed, I would keep increasing the keeper cost each year so that you don't have someone drafting Pujols as a rookie and then getting to keep them his entire career.
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Re: Keeper Rules For Following Season....Help/Advice Much Needed

Postby Trojan Pony » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:45 pm

My league does any players drafted after the first 3 rounds can be kept for up to 3 years. This prevents the superstar players from ever becoming keepers, unless someone claimed them as a keeper before they became a superstar, of course. But after three years of keeper claims, the player must be released and available to be drafted by any team. We don't have any penalties, hadn't even really thought of that, but so far this system works well.
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Re: Keeper Rules For Following Season....Help/Advice Much Needed

Postby Strained Oblique » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:11 pm

Here is an idea we came up with and I think it will work out quite well.

Each team will keep ONE PLAYER from the first 4 rounds, 1 player from the next 4 rounds etc.

1 player from 1-4
1 player from 5-8
1 player from 9-12

All the way through so each team is keeping 7 players next season. Does this sound suitable and ok?

It really places importance on drafts and finding that long term value in the later rounds. What are your thoughts? WHIR!!
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Re: Keeper Rules For Following Season....Help/Advice Much Needed

Postby Matthias » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:19 pm

It sounds ok with the caveat that I would say each year, a player moves up a, "group". So if you keep your 1st rounder from last year, you can't keep them this year.
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Re: Keeper Rules For Following Season....Help/Advice Much Needed

Postby Strained Oblique » Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:12 pm

So what you're saying is NEXT year we keep one guy from each of the 7 groups.

The following season, the guy in the top group has to go back into the draft, the guy in the 2nd group moves to the 1st group, and 3rd group guy goes into the 2nd group.

The thing with that is that you will never be keeping a top 4 round pick then more than a year? This would be the only year that you could do that as you would have them next year, but after that the guys drafted in rounds 5-8 would be your top tier keeper guy then and all the studs drafted in Rounds 1-4 THIS year would be back in the draft.

We have a 3 year max keeper, they can only keep guys for 3 years.

I liked your idea though.
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Re: Keeper Rules For Following Season....Help/Advice Much Needed

Postby FBL Commish » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:27 pm

Our league retention rules are totally based on Contract Years. We allow 8 per year. If you want to sign 8 guys for 1 year, go ahead. If you want to sign 1 for 8 years, that's cool. If you choose the latter, you will only have 1 Contract Year to dole out next year. Most guys spend 6 years on 6 guys and 2 on one. This system refreshes the studs (almost) every year. Important: Once a guy is given a contract, that contract MAY NOT be adjusted. No extensions. We want the studs back in the pool.

My retention list looks like this:
Rollins - 3 Years (Drafted in 2007, given the deal going into the 2008 season)
Manny - 1 Year (The last year of his 2 Year deal, drafted in 2006, given the deal going into the 2007 season)
Beltran - 1 Year (The last year of his 2 Year deal, drafted in 2006, given the deal going into the 2007 season)
Atkins - 2 Years (The middle year of a 3 year deal, drafted in 2006, given the deal going into the 2007 season)
Hughes - 1 Year (Drafted in 2008)

That's 8 years...Manny, Beltran and Hughes MUST go into the draft in 2009.
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Re: Keeper Rules For Following Season....Help/Advice Much Needed

Postby thatswhatshesaid » Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:14 am

So how do you work that out as far as trades?
Can a team trade for a player and then have MORE than 8 years after that trade in that system?

Let's say they trade Beltran to a possible contender for Ryan Braun, who they gave a 7 year keeper 'contract'. Next year, Rollins would have 2 years left, Atkins would be in the last year, and Braun would still have 6. That'd be 9 years. Does that system have a condition where that isn't allowed, or do they have to drop a year off another keeper.

Or what if two contenders try to snag Beltran and Manny and hand off a keeper each who'd have 3 years after this season... do you make it like an NBA trade where the 'contracts have to match up'?

I like that idea because of the contract/trade strategy, but I'm trying to start up a keeper league and want an idea how those situations work out in your league to help decide if that's how I want to establish it.
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