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Penalty for strikeouts?

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Penalty for strikeouts?

Postby oldmanbean » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:07 pm

Our league is straight points, highest year-end total wins. Hitters get credit for walks, pitchers get penalized. However, pitchers get credit for strikeouts but the hitters do not get penalized. I think they should be, but cannot convince the other owners of this. Would be interested to hear if our way is more common or not.

Thanks for your input

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Re: Penalty for strikeouts?

Postby colt4523 » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:24 pm

I am in the process of getting KO's for hitters taken out. Our league uses a h2h points system were hitters get -.5 pts per k. The stat makes our league a more pitcher friendly and causes an imbalance were there are higher scoring pitchers then hitters. So basically I do not like penalizing hitters who K, it is still just 1 out.
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Re: Penalty for strikeouts?

Postby oldmanbean » Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:10 pm

Well, our league to me is too hitter friendly. The top pitcher is ranked # 126, so 125 hitters are before him. 12 teams, 9 hitters
active at a time, so even the reserve hitters are doing better. I thought this might bring pitching a little closer.

Thanks for the input

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Re: Penalty for strikeouts?

Postby Matthias » Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:56 pm

If you want to bring pitchers closer to hitters, that's one issue. But doing it via punishing hitters for K'ing isn't the way to do it.

There's very little point in punishing K's. Nearly in everything else, the reward for putting the ball into play is there. If you hit a fly out and the runner advanced, you get the sac and it doesn't count against your avg. If there's someone on third, you also get the RBI. Punishing K's just doesn't make sense.
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Re: Penalty for strikeouts?

Postby oldmanbean » Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:56 pm

Well, for the opposite side then, why reward pitchers with K's if it is just another out? A strikeout is prett y much the only out you can make
that does not allow for runner advancement. Even a DP can get a runner to third ...

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Re: Penalty for strikeouts?

Postby Matthias » Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:04 am

Well, DIPS to start with. Under DIPS, the pitcher can control for: HR's, BB's, HBP's, PB's, and K's. Everything else is random chance for the pitcher*. So if the pitcher strikes someone out, they successfully did not give them an opportunity to do anything with the ball. Next, because a high K-rate pitcher is indicative of being a great pitcher whereas you can be a great hitter and K a lot. It doesn't work the either way. You mention DP's: hitting into a double play is actually worse than striking out. Do you dock for those?

Also, as to saccing and advancement for runners... as I said in my first post, if a hitter hits a fly and runners advance, he does get rewarded for it. It doesn't count as an AB for him, hurting his average. If he had struck out, it would have. So the penalty for striking out is already there.

Just because something shows up on both sides of the ball doesn't mean that it's necessary or even appropriate to judge for it. Do you include Stolen Bases Allowed for pitchers?

* You can look into DIPS and BABIP if you like but don't make the mistake of thinking that it works both ways. BABIP, e.g., is essentially random for pitchers but NOT for hitters.
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Re: Penalty for strikeouts?

Postby oldmanbean » Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:00 pm

Batting average means nothing in our league. Points are awarded for total bases, so if a guy hits 40 hr or 160 1B, it is still 160 points. Also, a batter gets a point for a walk, which is my main argument for losing a point with a K. I undersatand your logic for othe leagues, but ours is different. I wish we could make it a little more insteresting, but it has been around for 20 years, why change a good thing (so THEY say!)

Thanks,

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