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Chase Utley lite

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Re: Chase Utley lite

Postby TheA'sFatLeadoffMan » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:19 pm

By Chase Utley lite I just mean that he contributes in all the same aspects Chase does only to a lesser degree, except steal I suppose, but Chase's value isn't dictated that much by his steals.

Anyways, that's another aspect I thought about Abreu, if he starts struggling, or age gets to him, Cano's spot in the lineup could become far more enticing.
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Re: Chase Utley lite

Postby bigh0rt » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:34 pm

AngryMonkey wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:I anticipate Robinson Cano having a very strong season, and aside from Upton, he may be the best long-term 2B keeper option in the entire league, as Chase closes in on 30 years of age. If I were in a league that allowed you to keep a player indefinitely, and I were trying to turn the team around, Cano would definitely be my top 2B target.


Utter nonsense. Phillips is light-years ahead of Cano. Sure Cano can hit .300-20-100-100, with maybe 10 or so more HRs at his peak. But Phillips already did that... yeah... and he threw in 30 SBs for good measure. Sure his avg can't compare (at about .275-.285), but do you want .25-.15 points in average or 30 steals? No question here.
In terms of long-term potential, Upton beats Phillips by a small amount with Cano trailing the two. Nothing against Cano, but unless he starts to swipe 20 bags a year, he's not going to match the output of Phillips and Upton in any way.

Side note: I don't by into the Yankee prospect hype. Just because you play for the Yankees doesn't mean you're gonna rock the pants off every fantasy manager. In fact, your value is often over-inflated (see Cano this year). You can grab Kinsler later for better production all around...

- Monkey

I guess we just disagree on Phillips, then. His jump from 17 HR to 30 I don't think is his true power -- I do not see him approaching 30 HR this season, though the 25 additional steals to Cano is a certain bump for him. Cano's three full seasons have shown a normal progression in both power and his ability to draw a walk -- you have to reason that the career .040 point edge in OBP that Cano has over Phillips, and a likely eventual spot near the top of the Yankee lineup, make him more of a threat to score runs, not to mention Cano's career SLG is better than any single season Phillips has been able to produce. And yes, .025 points on batting average is a big deal, especially when Phillips only did more than sniff above .275 once ever, last season. If Phillips is able to put together another season the caliber of last, not even necessarily 30/30, but 25/25 even, I'll take a second look, but as it stands, Robinson Cano is definitely the guy I'd rather have, looking over the next few seasons; and that's before even considering that he's 2 years younger than Brandon.

On a different note, I don't buy int the 'Yankee prospect hype' either, but Cano has 3 very good major league seasons under his belt, as a 24 year old, plays with one of the best lineups in all of baseball (and presumably will continue to), and before last season, Brandon Phillips was a Waiver Wire player. There's also the part where I have to pay a 2nd Round Pick to get Phillips, whereas I can wait until the 6th to get Cano -- if Phillips puts up Round 2 numbers again this season, as I said, my tune may change, but until then, I'm just not a big believer.
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Re: Chase Utley lite

Postby RynMan » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:28 am

What do you guys project from Cano this season? (5x5).

Just curious.
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Re: Chase Utley lite

Postby MTUCache » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:02 am

RynMan wrote:What do you guys project from Cano this season? (5x5).

Just curious.


I've got multiple sources pegging him right around: .310/18/90/90/5

Seems about right, but when you consider the value he actually brings in any category other than average, he's certainly not spectacular.

Don't get me wrong... I'd rather have him than say, Placido Polanco, even if they both have the same average. An extra 30 RBIs and 10 HR is a big deal, but in the end I'd much rather tradeoff 10-20 points of average for a 2B who's going to get me 25+SB. With Upton, Phillips, Roberts*(35+), Kinsler, Figgins*(40+), and even Weeks all in that range, it's hard to take a 2B who's not going to get me any SB unless I've already got a speedster in my IF (either HanRam or Reyes).

I'm honestly starting to look at taking a slow 2B like taking a powerless 1B... it really comes back to bite you unless you've already built around it. At least half your league is getting production out of their 2B that includes 25 SB, some of them 40+SB. Having one who's not even going to get you 10 is a real handicap.
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Re: Chase Utley lite

Postby bigh0rt » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:55 am

RynMan wrote:What do you guys project from Cano this season? (5x5).

Just curious.

The Run and RBI totals will be dependant on where he bats in the lineup.

.320/22 HR/105 RBI/95 R/5 SB
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Re: Chase Utley lite

Postby kab21 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:33 pm

Should we call Howie Kendrick, 'Robby Cano lite?' Or maybe Freddy Sanchez?

I think that's more appropriate than calling Cano, 'Chase Utley lite.' The extra HR's and SB's are a huge boost for Utley vs Cano and that's leaving out the extra RBI's and R's. Cano is still a good player, but he's closer to waiver wire 2B than he is to Utley.
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Re: Chase Utley lite

Postby RynMan » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:16 pm

I've made this point before, but I'll say it again.

If you expect anything close to .290/25/90/90/5 , I'd rather take Jeff Kent 15 rounds later.

If he ran at all, this would be a different conversation.
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Re: Chase Utley lite

Postby jake_harv88 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:24 pm

MTUCache wrote:
I'm honestly starting to look at taking a slow 2B like taking a powerless 1B... it really comes back to bite you unless you've already built around it. At least half your league is getting production out of their 2B that includes 25 SB, some of them 40+SB. Having one who's not even going to get you 10 is a real handicap.


Building your positions around typical stats is a poor way to draft in my opinion. You should be able to account for your needs no matter what your position-stats break down is...

I've got Cano at .320/20 HR/95 RBI/95 R/5 SB. Pretty close to BigHort but his proj. seems pretty optimistic. His runs and rbis obviously depend on where he hits in the lineup. However, hitting in the yanks lineup should make him a perennial 100 rbi/run contender. He's definitely a top 3 2B in a keeper league IMO, but in a redraft I would certainly considering one of the other guys who provides you with some SBs (Phillips, Upton, Kinsler, Roberts).

Can anyone say something about his speed. Is he really slow or does he just not get the opportunity? If cano could steal 10-12 bases his value would skyrocket IMO

Misremembers is quickly becoming the favorite cafe catch phrase ;-D
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Re: Chase Utley lite

Postby jake_harv88 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:26 pm

RynMan wrote:I've made this point before, but I'll say it again.

If you expect anything close to .290/25/90/90/5 , I'd rather take Jeff Kent 15 rounds later.

If he ran at all, this would be a different conversation.


valid argument. But I think Cano will post a higher average and is a better contender to put up 100 runs and rbis than kent. Not too mention that Kent is somewhat of an injury risk at this point in his career...
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Re: Chase Utley lite

Postby Giambis » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:31 pm

RynMan wrote:I've made this point before, but I'll say it again.

If you expect anything close to .290/25/90/90/5 , I'd rather take Jeff Kent 15 rounds later.

If he ran at all, this would be a different conversation.


I agree with this. I think Cano obviously has the upside over Kent, but in a redraft, the value per draft position favors Kent by a wide margin. And I don't even want to mention Kelly Johnson, who I seem to be scooping cheap this year.
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