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Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

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Re: Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

Postby Sensei » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:11 pm

I've tried this exact same thing twice before, and actually just finished the draft for my 3rd try. I had very different results for my 2 previous attempts. (5x5, 12 teams)

2 years ago - finished 1st place; Offense flourished and averaged about 11's; Relievers/closers got me 12's in Saves/ERA/WHIP, and took last in wins and K's.

1 year ago - finished 9th; Offense was marginal when Hafner/Dye slumped badly and my hitters underperformed overall; Relievers/closers got me about 8's in S/ERA/WHIP, last in wins'K's; so, I finished poorly

I have learned that in order for this to work, the offensive studs you draft have to be extremely solid. Your offense has to dominate, and if you draft any weak links or if people don't perform, you're sunk. My relievers the 2nd year didn't perform well enough to win my 3 pitching cats. You need a great draft and lots of luck, and a well-balanced team can easily take you down in a 12-teamer, since you can only get 98 points (8 12's and 2 1's).
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Re: Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

Postby Another Blown Save » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:16 pm

Punting any category is pretty much a bad idea in roto-leagues, especially when there is only 10 teams.
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Re: Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

Postby quicksilver8 » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:10 pm

If this is a 10 team mixed league 5x5, then punting categories is absolutely not a good idea. With only 10 teams in a mixed, you should be able to piece together an all star team! Seriously, no reason to punt. Plus, you can "punt" saves in the draft by drafting lower level closers late...thereby not really punting the category, but picking up closers in waiting late and during the year.

Plus, most leagues that are considered "competitive", have a minimum innings pitched requirement that a team must meet...put in place to prevent the "all relievers" approach.
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Re: Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

Postby pokerplaya » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:39 pm

quicksilver8 wrote:If this is a 10 team mixed league 5x5, then punting categories is absolutely not a good idea. With only 10 teams in a mixed, you should be able to piece together an all star team! Seriously, no reason to punt. Plus, you can "punt" saves in the draft by drafting lower level closers late...thereby not really punting the category, but picking up closers in waiting late and during the year.

Plus, most leagues that are considered "competitive", have a minimum innings pitched requirement that a team must meet...put in place to prevent the "all relievers" approach.


I think this is a very overlooked point. If it is a mixed league with only 10 teams it is a shallow league, and you should have a well balanced and solid team throughout. Not a good idea to try this strategy.
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Re: Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

Postby Yoda » Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:49 pm

I've done this in a 20 team league and won. I had all closers/MRs and no starters due to no IP limit.
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Re: Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

Postby jlm53089 » Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:09 pm

Haha, guy in my 10 team money league does it every year, and he won last year.
But people get stupid in my league and trading him the hitting he needs to win for his JJ Putz or Joe Nathan.
But it is a disadvantage for everyone else because instead of picking a solid starter in the 4th round, they can take another bat and have a deeper hitting squad.

Thats why this year we have a minimum of 800 innings pitched.
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Re: Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

Postby TheA'sFatLeadoffMan » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:46 am

Seems like bad strategy to me getting 32 of 50 pitching points isn't hard, I don't see that as impressive incentive. Not only that, but you are forced to take elite closers because 65 IP of a 3.50 ERA from mediocore closer is going to be far more damaging than had you drafted starters. So you are forced to take closers like Paps, JJ, or Nathan, and whoever you feel is a worthy compliment if not 2 from that 1st tier. Forces your hand too much IMO as you are forcing your draft strategy early in the draft to allow you more value/felxibility late in the draft(the ability to pick up elite MR and SU men so late that whatever rounds you would of taken SP would be more focused on hitting).
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Re: Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

Postby mak1277 » Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:45 am

It's so unlikely that you can win a roto league punting 2 categories. In my 9-team NL-only league last year, I unintentionally finished last in wins. Even though I finished first in EVERY offensive category, I still had to scramble at the end to finish in a tie for first. If I had punted another category, I would've had no chance.

Your claim that 72 points *should* be enough to win. I don't disagree with that, but 72 points is only gained under the assumption that everything goes perfectly. Given that it's a 10-team mixed, I don't think you're guaranteed 40 points on offense even under your strategy. There are going to be plenty of good hitting options that are taken late in the draft and discovered from the WW during the year because your league's so shallow.

I think this strategy is much more viable in a big, deep league. In a shallow league, you're going to be in trouble I think.
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Re: Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

Postby Steve-o » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:57 am

Subes is at the bar wrote:See I realize punting categories is questionable but by punting Ws and Ks you're going to start only RPs, and RPs that qualify at SP in your SP spots. How many have to be closers to lock up Saves? 5? The rest you don't even have to draft or you could even draft 3 closers and fill in as you go as your Middle Relievers get closing spots. The ratios of top Middle Relievers are so much better than "high value starters" that you'd lock in 32 pitching points.


This is the problem every year. The general consensus, which I believe, is that most pitching is more volatile then hitting, and that holds true for MR as well. You can't identify who those top notch MRs are until about 1/3 of the way through the season. And by then, it may be too late for such a strategy.

I tried something similar to this about four years ago in a couple of different leagues. In one it was a H2H 6x6 weekly roto. There I drafted closers early and often (if I remember correctly, 2 elite by rd 6, 3 by 10, and 5 overall, plus MR on top of that). However, I was surprised at how average my hitting was. I was taking RP when others were taking SP, so my hitting basically compared to everyone else.

The second time I did it with a little more success. It was 2/3 through a roto season and I was getting clobbered in W and Ks (bottom 3 overall in those cats). I think I had a couple of bad injuries and I was in place 9 or 10 of 12 teams. I basically traded away all my remaining SP for hitters and RP, making sure I got the closers who had SP eligibility. I made up ground, but only moved up into 6th place. I was pretty happy with that result because it was way more respectable than a 9th or 10th place finish.

Either way I don't recommend starting with that strategy.
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Re: Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

Postby Diggs » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:14 pm

I just tried this in a 12 team mock draft and here is the team I ended up with. Let me know if you would be happy with it. I was drafting from the 6th position:

C - Victor Martinez
1B - Todd Helton
2B - Robinson Cano
SS - Jose Reyes
3B - Chipper Jones
OF - Alfonso Soriano
OF - Manny Ramirez
OF - Aaron Rowand
UTI - Jeff Kent / Michael Cuddyer / Jermain Dye

P - Carlos Zambrano
P - AJ Burnett
RP - JJ Putz
RP - Takashi Saito
RP - Mariano Rivera
RP - Jason Isringhause
RP - Jonathon Broxton
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