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Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

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Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

Postby Subes is at the bar » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:41 pm

Assuming a 10 person league, standard 5x5 Rotisserie.

Make any sense to punt Starters? Go with Closers/Middle Relievers for Saves, ERA, and WHIP trying to win all 3 and inevitably finish last in the other 2.

Gives you 32 of a possible 50 pitching points.

In the process, using the picks you would normally use for SPs on Bats and a few closers to stack your lineup and make a run at a high 40's output for offense.

Yeah yeah I know, it's "cheesy"... it's just a discussion of whether it would work, not an ethical argument...
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Re: Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

Postby KoopaTroopa211 » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:44 pm

Punting one category is risky enough, but two? %-6
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Re: Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

Postby jfg » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:45 pm

I don't think it makes any sense to punt those categories because pitching is the easiest position to find value and closers are the position where it's hardest. So, you'd be throwing away good value to overpay for saves. That's a bad decision in my opinion.
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Re: Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

Postby Old_Style » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:50 pm

eftda wrote:I'd rather try to get 8 points in each. Thats 40 points total and a possible 50 total. Punting wins and K's may be useful in H2H, but not in roto.


;-D
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Re: Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

Postby Subes is at the bar » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:53 pm

You think more useful in h2h? hmmm...

See I realize punting categories is questionable but by punting Ws and Ks you're going to start only RPs, and RPs that qualify at SP in your SP spots. How many have to be closers to lock up Saves? 5? The rest you don't even have to draft or you could even draft 3 closers and fill in as you go as your Middle Relievers get closing spots. The ratios of top Middle Relievers are so much better than "high value starters" that you'd lock in 32 pitching points.

Now this only works if you get a killer offense... Doesn't that start with having a great offensive draft? Well only having to draft 3 or 4 pitchers sure helps... and you could even take them last since you'll accomplish your pitching goals with quantity over quality and in Roto you can be patient.

Let's say the offense you put together gets 40 points or average 8/10 in each cat, that's 72 points. Should easily win most leagues...
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Re: Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

Postby tuckerman85 » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:10 pm

I think you will have a hard time ignoring pitching in rounds 5-9 this year. In all the mocks I've done the amount of pitching that goes in that range is incredible.. At times I've wanted to grab a hitter, but there is literally none to take. So you may struggle with this strategy if you run into a similar situation.
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Re: Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

Postby Field » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:16 pm

Subes is at the bar wrote:You think more useful in h2h? hmmm...

See I realize punting categories is questionable but by punting Ws and Ks you're going to start only RPs, and RPs that qualify at SP in your SP spots. How many have to be closers to lock up Saves? 5? The rest you don't even have to draft or you could even draft 3 closers and fill in as you go as your Middle Relievers get closing spots. The ratios of top Middle Relievers are so much better than "high value starters" that you'd lock in 32 pitching points.

Now this only works if you get a killer offense... Doesn't that start with having a great offensive draft? Well only having to draft 3 or 4 pitchers sure helps... and you could even take them last since you'll accomplish your pitching goals with quantity over quality and in Roto you can be patient.

Let's say the offense you put together gets 40 points or average 8/10 in each cat, that's 72 points. Should easily win most leagues...


Recipe for disaster.

Give it a try if you want, and let us know how it works out.
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Re: Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

Postby Subes is at the bar » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:18 pm

Yeah that's a good point... Might start to run out of quality hitters to take in the draft. I'm definitely trying this strategy in one league and I may make a run on closers and just stock up and try to trade them, or even use them all, fill up on saves early in the year and trade them as the season goes on for more bats.

I brought the theory up to one of my buddies in a league we do and he's already changing categories to block it... but I'll post my roster post-draft in the league I do it for. I really think that the 32pts are a lock for pitching and 40 hitting points is reasonable if you have zero concern for picking pitchers. If 72 doesn't win the league, then it doesn't, but I'll sign for it and take my chances.
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Re: Punting Wins and K's in a 5x5

Postby swyck » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:56 pm

Subes is at the bar wrote:Now this only works if you get a killer offense... Doesn't that start with having a great offensive draft? Well only having to draft 3 or 4 pitchers sure helps... and you could even take them last since you'll accomplish your pitching goals with quantity over quality and in Roto you can be patient.

Let's say the offense you put together gets 40 points or average 8/10 in each cat, that's 72 points. Should easily win most leagues...


Problem is you're not just trying to win saves, your trying to win ERA and WHIP also. That means you can't afford third rank closers, you need at least a couple of the top guys, e.g. Nathan, Putz, or Papelbon. Those guys will go fairly early. From the Mock Draft central ADPs I'm seeing:

Papelbon 43.55
Putz 51.68
Nathan 54.21
FRod 62.12

Thats 4th - 6th rounds for those guys.

Now there are other closers that have nice ERA's and WHIPs, but can you count on those guys every year? The top guys are gone by the 7th, and if your drafting them you aint drafting all the top bats. The second rank of closers is gone by the 10th, and the third rank you may not know their names yet, e.g. Corpas and Capps. Where were they during draft day last year, and who knew their rate cats would wind up to be that good?

So IMO the issue is that you can't guarantee winning ERA and WHIP unless you fill out most of your closers before the 10th round, and if you do that then your offensive draft will suffer.

Actually I like to see people trying new strategies. I don't think this strategy will work, but I could be wrong about that. I've never tried a punt in roto, but did win a league once while finishing last in a cat (avg), so I'd say its doable. Hey give it a shot, it may be fun. ;-D Just tell us how it turned out.
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