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cheaters since 2000

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Re: cheaters since 2000

Postby Yoda » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:10 am

bigken117 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
bigken117 wrote:I would guess the MLB must have some sort of general conduct policy, the same as any organization from the massive Exxon to the little corner mart, that says something along the lines of employees must act in accordance with the law. Just because it's not specifically spelled out doesn't make it legal.

As far as I know, there was no general conduct policy in MLB at the time, thereby making my point a valid one.



So....if your employer doesn't explicitly say that doing cocaine is against policy, they have no grounds to suspend you for doing it? Your defense is "there's no policy against it".


Yeah just ask the 70s Pirates.
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Re: cheaters since 2000

Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:51 pm

bigken117 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
bigken117 wrote:I would guess the MLB must have some sort of general conduct policy, the same as any organization from the massive Exxon to the little corner mart, that says something along the lines of employees must act in accordance with the law. Just because it's not specifically spelled out doesn't make it legal.

As far as I know, there was no general conduct policy in MLB at the time, thereby making my point a valid one.



So....if your employer doesn't explicitly say that doing cocaine is against policy, they have no grounds to suspend you for doing it? Your defense is "there's no policy against it".


Yes.

Those people who abused steroids should absolutely be held accountable by the government...they broke a US law. I'm not saying it's okay to do steroids. I'm saying that if baseball doesn't outline a policy regarding it, and label it as a punishable offense, then they have no grounds to punish you. It has nothing to do with baseball players being 'above the law.' Not all US laws are baseball rules, and not all baseball rules are US laws. If a player breaks a US law, he should be held accountable by the US legal system. If that broken law is also a rule of baseball, then baseball has the right to punish that player.

Baseball cannot simply punish people for breaking US laws if they don't deem it a punishable offense in their rulebook. Otherwise, and I hate to keep having to use this example, baseball would be able to punish someone for speeding, which is also against US law. Baseball needs to define what is and is not a punishable offense IN THEIR GAME. The MLB is not an extension of the US government. Those who break US laws are to be dealt with by the legal system, not by MLB....unless, of course, MLB claims the right to do so, which they failed to do until a few years ago.

The NFL is different because it has a personal conduct policy. To my knowledge, MLB does not. Here is a link to the NFL's policy...
http://www.nflpa.org/RulesAndRegs/ConductPolicy.aspx

You need to have a policy.
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Re: cheaters since 2000

Postby knapplc » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:57 am

BronXBombers51 wrote:
bigken117 wrote:So....if your employer doesn't explicitly say that doing cocaine is against policy, they have no grounds to suspend you for doing it? Your defense is "there's no policy against it".


Yes.

Those people who abused steroids should absolutely be held accountable by the government...they broke a US law. I'm not saying it's okay to do steroids. I'm saying that if baseball doesn't outline a policy regarding it, and label it as a punishable offense, then they have no grounds to punish you. It has nothing to do with baseball players being 'above the law.' Not all US laws are baseball rules, and not all baseball rules are US laws. If a player breaks a US law, he should be held accountable by the US legal system. If that broken law is also a rule of baseball, then baseball has the right to punish that player.

Baseball cannot simply punish people for breaking US laws if they don't deem it a punishable offense in their rulebook. Otherwise, and I hate to keep having to use this example, baseball would be able to punish someone for speeding, which is also against US law. Baseball needs to define what is and is not a punishable offense IN THEIR GAME. The MLB is not an extension of the US government. Those who break US laws are to be dealt with by the legal system, not by MLB....unless, of course, MLB claims the right to do so, which they failed to do until a few years ago.

The NFL is different because it has a personal conduct policy. To my knowledge, MLB does not. Here is a link to the NFL's policy...
http://www.nflpa.org/RulesAndRegs/ConductPolicy.aspx

You need to have a policy.

Uh... no. Not even close.

I'm an EEO Investigator for the State of Nebraska. Both state and federal laws pretty much make everything you're saying wrong. Baseball CAN punish someone for breaking laws even if it's not in their rulebook to do so. Baseball IS able to punish someone for speeding, they simply choose not to. Speeding, while illegal, isn't egregious enough to warrant action by most employers, that's all.

You are living in a fantasy world if you believe what you wrote above. The real world simply doesn't work that way.
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Re: cheaters since 2000

Postby BronXBombers51 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:32 pm

knapplc wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
bigken117 wrote:So....if your employer doesn't explicitly say that doing cocaine is against policy, they have no grounds to suspend you for doing it? Your defense is "there's no policy against it".


Yes.

Those people who abused steroids should absolutely be held accountable by the government...they broke a US law. I'm not saying it's okay to do steroids. I'm saying that if baseball doesn't outline a policy regarding it, and label it as a punishable offense, then they have no grounds to punish you. It has nothing to do with baseball players being 'above the law.' Not all US laws are baseball rules, and not all baseball rules are US laws. If a player breaks a US law, he should be held accountable by the US legal system. If that broken law is also a rule of baseball, then baseball has the right to punish that player.

Baseball cannot simply punish people for breaking US laws if they don't deem it a punishable offense in their rulebook. Otherwise, and I hate to keep having to use this example, baseball would be able to punish someone for speeding, which is also against US law. Baseball needs to define what is and is not a punishable offense IN THEIR GAME. The MLB is not an extension of the US government. Those who break US laws are to be dealt with by the legal system, not by MLB....unless, of course, MLB claims the right to do so, which they failed to do until a few years ago.

The NFL is different because it has a personal conduct policy. To my knowledge, MLB does not. Here is a link to the NFL's policy...
http://www.nflpa.org/RulesAndRegs/ConductPolicy.aspx

You need to have a policy.

Uh... no. Not even close.

I'm an EEO Investigator for the State of Nebraska. Both state and federal laws pretty much make everything you're saying wrong. Baseball CAN punish someone for breaking laws even if it's not in their rulebook to do so. Baseball IS able to punish someone for speeding, they simply choose not to. Speeding, while illegal, isn't egregious enough to warrant action by most employers, that's all.

You are living in a fantasy world if you believe what you wrote above. The real world simply doesn't work that way.


Then why have policies at all? Why has the NFL had a drug policy and a personal conduct policy for years? Why did baseball adopt a steroid policy?
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Re: cheaters since 2000

Postby knapplc » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:42 pm

Just about every employer from 10,000 employees to 10 employees has a set of personnel policies. They provide order and are a basis on how to conduct your business, but they are not law and they are not set in stone. I could draft a set of personnel policies for Company Knapp, Inc. and never follow them once, and it's perfectly legal.

During investigations policies are certainly relevant, but failure to follow company policies by either the company or the employees is not indicative of illegal activity per se. They are a guideline, nothing more.
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Re: cheaters since 2000

Postby soxfan364 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:22 pm

Or the '86 Mets

Yoda wrote:
Yeah just ask the 70s Pirates.
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Re: cheaters since 2000

Postby Yoda » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:23 pm

Now an unidentified former player is claiming that illegal taping really happened:

NY Times

The Patriots’ pattern of illicitly videotaping the signals of opposing N.F.L. coaches began in Coach Bill Belichick’s first preseason with the team in 2000, a former Patriots player said. The information was put to use in that year’s regular-season opener against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Belichick’s debut as New England’s coach.
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Re: cheaters since 2000

Postby thedude » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:51 pm

knapplc wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
bigken117 wrote:So....if your employer doesn't explicitly say that doing cocaine is against policy, they have no grounds to suspend you for doing it? Your defense is "there's no policy against it".


Yes.

Those people who abused steroids should absolutely be held accountable by the government...they broke a US law. I'm not saying it's okay to do steroids. I'm saying that if baseball doesn't outline a policy regarding it, and label it as a punishable offense, then they have no grounds to punish you. It has nothing to do with baseball players being 'above the law.' Not all US laws are baseball rules, and not all baseball rules are US laws. If a player breaks a US law, he should be held accountable by the US legal system. If that broken law is also a rule of baseball, then baseball has the right to punish that player.

Baseball cannot simply punish people for breaking US laws if they don't deem it a punishable offense in their rulebook. Otherwise, and I hate to keep having to use this example, baseball would be able to punish someone for speeding, which is also against US law. Baseball needs to define what is and is not a punishable offense IN THEIR GAME. The MLB is not an extension of the US government. Those who break US laws are to be dealt with by the legal system, not by MLB....unless, of course, MLB claims the right to do so, which they failed to do until a few years ago.

The NFL is different because it has a personal conduct policy. To my knowledge, MLB does not. Here is a link to the NFL's policy...
http://www.nflpa.org/RulesAndRegs/ConductPolicy.aspx

You need to have a policy.

Uh... no. Not even close.

I'm an EEO Investigator for the State of Nebraska. Both state and federal laws pretty much make everything you're saying wrong. Baseball CAN punish someone for breaking laws even if it's not in their rulebook to do so. Baseball IS able to punish someone for speeding, they simply choose not to. Speeding, while illegal, isn't egregious enough to warrant action by most employers, that's all.

You are living in a fantasy world if you believe what you wrote above. The real world simply doesn't work that way.



If a person's off the job conduct reflects poorly on his employer, then that company has the right to discipline the worker. There are dozens of cases like this.
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Re: cheaters since 2000

Postby BronXBombers51 » Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:30 pm

thedude wrote:
knapplc wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:Yes.

Those people who abused steroids should absolutely be held accountable by the government...they broke a US law. I'm not saying it's okay to do steroids. I'm saying that if baseball doesn't outline a policy regarding it, and label it as a punishable offense, then they have no grounds to punish you. It has nothing to do with baseball players being 'above the law.' Not all US laws are baseball rules, and not all baseball rules are US laws. If a player breaks a US law, he should be held accountable by the US legal system. If that broken law is also a rule of baseball, then baseball has the right to punish that player.

Baseball cannot simply punish people for breaking US laws if they don't deem it a punishable offense in their rulebook. Otherwise, and I hate to keep having to use this example, baseball would be able to punish someone for speeding, which is also against US law. Baseball needs to define what is and is not a punishable offense IN THEIR GAME. The MLB is not an extension of the US government. Those who break US laws are to be dealt with by the legal system, not by MLB....unless, of course, MLB claims the right to do so, which they failed to do until a few years ago.

The NFL is different because it has a personal conduct policy. To my knowledge, MLB does not. Here is a link to the NFL's policy...
http://www.nflpa.org/RulesAndRegs/ConductPolicy.aspx

You need to have a policy.

Uh... no. Not even close.

I'm an EEO Investigator for the State of Nebraska. Both state and federal laws pretty much make everything you're saying wrong. Baseball CAN punish someone for breaking laws even if it's not in their rulebook to do so. Baseball IS able to punish someone for speeding, they simply choose not to. Speeding, while illegal, isn't egregious enough to warrant action by most employers, that's all.

You are living in a fantasy world if you believe what you wrote above. The real world simply doesn't work that way.



If a person's off the job conduct reflects poorly on his employer, then that company has the right to discipline the worker. There are dozens of cases like this.


In MLB?

I still don't understand why the MLB (not to mention every single other major sports league) would even bother developing a policy then. If they can punish an employee for whatever they feel like, then why don't they just do so?
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Re: cheaters since 2000

Postby JRM4833 » Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:49 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:In MLB?

I still don't understand why the MLB (not to mention every single other major sports league) would even bother developing a policy then. If they can punish an employee for whatever they feel like, then why don't they just do so?


So the union has less to complain about.
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