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What will Cleveland do with Sabathia?

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Re: What will Cleveland do with Sabathia?

Postby Grounded Polo » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:26 pm

I'd be surprised if the Yanks didn't make a run at Sabathia if he isn't dealt somewhere else at the deadline. After '08, it seems like almost all of their bad contracts besides Igawa come off the books and the only guys they're overpaying are considered "true" Yankees so it's easier to swallow.

It's hard to imagine Pettite coming back again after '08 but maybe if Hughes or Joba can be very solid #2 level guys during the season and pick it a notch in the playoffs, the Yanks may continue their newly found thrifty model and not invest in a current ace that has serious concerns about how well he'll hold up in the future. Of course, if their pitching falls flat, they're bound to be considered a potential destination earlier than next winter.

I wouldn't want him locked up until he's 35 for 17-20 million a year but that's where the market is heading. :-{
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Re: What will Cleveland do with Sabathia?

Postby Matthias » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:36 pm

The Cow wrote:
Matthias wrote:
The Cow wrote:In other words if you want C.C. then give us something in return because we will take picks instead of garbage prospects.

No offense, but that's the same thing they were saying over on the Minneapolis Star-Tribune in December.

And what are they saying in Baltimore? Baltimore is getting Adam Jones one of the game's best prospects. The Twins had better offers on the table at the Winter meetings, Minnesota dropped the ball. My guess Minnesota makes a better deal if Terry Ryan were still GM.

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Bedard is controlled for 2 years. If Sabathia is dealt, it would probably be at the deadline, so you're getting half a season.

But we'll see. I don't know if Cleveland will hold on to CC for the whole season, but if he's traded, it will be for something closer to what the Twins got than the Mariners.
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Re: What will Cleveland do with Sabathia?

Postby eftda » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:31 pm

Matthias wrote:Bedard is controlled for 2 years. If Sabathia is dealt, it would probably be at the deadline, so you're getting half a season.

But we'll see. I don't know if Cleveland will hold on to CC for the whole season, but if he's traded, it will be for something closer to what the Twins got than the Mariners.


Very true. I dount any team would be willing to trade their top prospect(s) for a 2 month rental.
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Re: What will Cleveland do with Sabathia?

Postby The Cow » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:07 pm

eftda wrote:
Matthias wrote:Bedard is controlled for 2 years. If Sabathia is dealt, it would probably be at the deadline, so you're getting half a season.

But we'll see. I don't know if Cleveland will hold on to CC for the whole season, but if he's traded, it will be for something closer to what the Twins got than the Mariners.


Very true. I dount any team would be willing to trade their top prospect(s) for a 2 month rental.


I will say this IF we were to trade C.C. now we would get a better deal than the Twins got for Johan, not because C.C. is better than Johan, but because Shapiro would make a better deal than the Twins. The Twins were owned. Now as it looks now if we do deal C.C. it will be at the deadline and if we deal C.C. at the deadline we will get a package similar to the Twins or we would not get a "top" prospect, but ya never know. But we will have also gotten several months of C.C. in an attempt to win. So we would get prospects and our team at least tried to win.

I will throw this out there Shapiro 5 years ago made a trade deadline deal the Tribe dealt: Bartolo Colon, Tim Drew and Lee Stevens to the Expos for: Brandon Phillips, Cliff Lee and Grady Sizemore. Huge win for the Tribe here, big mistake letting Phillips go though. So IMO I think Shapiro can get a good deal at the deadline. Remember Colon was at the time considered a top SP, Drew was a decent prospect that had floundered in Cleveland and Stevens was a journeyman. Phillips was one of the top prospects in the game, Cliff Lee was considered a very nice pitching prospect and Grady was an athletic A ball OFer.

I like that we are trying to win this year and in the event we flop I feel confident that Shapiro will make a good deal at the deadline.

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Re: What will Cleveland do with Sabathia?

Postby eftda » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:08 pm

I wouldnt go as far as to say that the Indians will get a better deal. Santana got a contract extention. I doubt any team will "trade the farm" if they dont get the same.
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Re: What will Cleveland do with Sabathia?

Postby KCollins1304 » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:40 pm

If Sabathia makes it to FA, I would expect the Yankees to pony up the cash for him. While the Yankees have a lot of SP depth in the system, there aren't any lefties that are expected to make it to the Yankee rotation.
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Re: What will Cleveland do with Sabathia?

Postby Matthias » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:50 pm

Maybe Shapiro has made better deals in the past, but then in all fairness, so have the Twins. Partially you can say that Bill Smith just got out-maneuvered, and there's probably some truth to that, but I think the Santana trade illustrates more of a paradigm shift than it does one GM's ineptness. The big players that you would expect in a quality vet trade: Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Red Sox... all of them laid down the understanding that they were putting a high premium on their own young talent. Somewhat that could just be due to the change in helm at the Yankees: without crazy King George jumping at anyone he saw nightly on Sportscenter, the primary driver of these trades is gone. But such an analysis would be overly simplistic. Rather, I'd say that even the Yankees aren't happy paying tons of cash in luxury tax and the Red Sox have been very open about their desire to stay under it. With premium free agents spiraling up to the $20MM/yr range, having young, quality, cost-controlled players is at a premium, even for the teams with the highest payrolls. So the last place you'll see the ace players for blue-chip talent will be in a situation like the Mets who are living on the border of the playoffs where acquiring one player who is 5 wins over their replacement is worth a substantial player swap.

Which is a long way of saying, maybe Shapiro will pull off an eye-popping deal at the deadline (the teams living on the border of the playoffs will certainly be better defined by then) but I wouldn't just assume it's going to be the case because it was the case 5 years ago.
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Re: What will Cleveland do with Sabathia?

Postby The Cow » Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:08 pm

Matthias wrote:Maybe Shapiro has made better deals in the past, but then in all fairness, so have the Twins. Partially you can say that Bill Smith just got out-maneuvered, and there's probably some truth to that, but I think the Santana trade illustrates more of a paradigm shift than it does one GM's ineptness. The big players that you would expect in a quality vet trade: Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Red Sox... all of them laid down the understanding that they were putting a high premium on their own young talent. Somewhat that could just be due to the change in helm at the Yankees: without crazy King George jumping at anyone he saw nightly on Sportscenter, the primary driver of these trades is gone. But such an analysis would be overly simplistic. Rather, I'd say that even the Yankees aren't happy paying tons of cash in luxury tax and the Red Sox have been very open about their desire to stay under it. With premium free agents spiraling up to the $20MM/yr range, having young, quality, cost-controlled players is at a premium, even for the teams with the highest payrolls. So the last place you'll see the ace players for blue-chip talent will be in a situation like the Mets who are living on the border of the playoffs where acquiring one player who is 5 wins over their replacement is worth a substantial player swap.

Which is a long way of saying, maybe Shapiro will pull off an eye-popping deal at the deadline (the teams living on the border of the playoffs will certainly be better defined by then) but I wouldn't just assume it's going to be the case because it was the case 5 years ago.


Its doubtful Shapiro fleeces a team as he did 5 years ago, but I still think at the very least C.C. can be flipped for the type of prospects the Twins received. At the trade deadline no less. Teams get desperate come the deadline so you never know. Who wouldn't want a young ace lefthander? The trick is resigning him. Teams may want C.C. and may be willing to deal for him and extend him before he hits free agency. To ensure you get C.C. you have to trade for C.C., assuming an extension is in place. But I am hoping we have C.C. all year that means we are winning, if all we get are picks thats fine we can use some young talent in the minors. At least with the picks we have a shot at drafting a high upside talent rather than trading for low upside talent as the Twins did.

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Re: What will Cleveland do with Sabathia?

Postby Yoda » Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:21 pm

KCollins1304 wrote:If Sabathia makes it to FA, I would expect the Yankees to pony up the cash for him. While the Yankees have a lot of SP depth in the system, there aren't any lefties that are expected to make it to the Yankee rotation.


CC would look much better in pinstripes. Make his fat build look slimmer.

Seriously, lefties who can dial it up to 100 with his stuff and command are a rare commodity. He will get top $s barring any set backs this season. So it narrows down to a few teams like the Yanks, Sox, Cubs and Dodgers.
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Re: What will Cleveland do with Sabathia?

Postby High Heater » Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:32 pm

CC will get a deal somewhere, hes a lefty like yoda stated who can dial it upward of 100 with control. he has improved K/BB numbers for the past 3 years now and is in his prime.

out of all the recent pitchers he's the one i'd target over Zito/Santana/Zambrano ect if i were to "spend" the money on.
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