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best young pitchers

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Re: best young pitchers

Postby bobbing_headz » Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:12 pm

mariners47 wrote:Is this for this year or for the future going forward?

I think people forget how young Felix is. He's going to turn 22 in April, and is a few years younger than some of these guys who were or are rookies. There's no reason to think he doesn't have more room for improvement, especially if you're also expecting guys like Lincecum (24), Buchholz (23), and Joba (22) to take a step forward.


On that note, I think people forget how young Cain is. He's younger than Lincecum (by about 4 months).
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Re: best young pitchers

Postby Ender » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:21 pm

I will go out on a limb and say that Gallardo will be better than Cain or Lincecum for this season. He will be better than every tier 2 pitcher you listed except maybe Felix. That is for this year only, Gallardo doesn't have quite the upside of Lincecum but he is more polished and on a better team.
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Re: best young pitchers

Postby Scooter1027 » Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:50 am

Ender wrote:I will go out on a limb and say that Gallardo will be better than Cain or Lincecum for this season. He will be better than every tier 2 pitcher you listed except maybe Felix. That is for this year only, Gallardo doesn't have quite the upside of Lincecum but he is more polished and on a better team.


I agree with this. I think Yo has the stuff, command, and composure to be a very good starting pitcher, this year. Lincecum has the pure stuff to be truly dominant, and a clear step above Gallardo. I'm just not sure it happens this year. So it depends how you're ranking these guys, in my humble opinion. For this season, I'll take Yo. If I were starting a franchise...I'd most likely take Lincecum.

Also, as talented as Liriano could be, I'd be hesitant to put him quite so highly on a list filled with tremendous young talents. I need to see him return to pre-injury form first. Looking at production this season, I'd probably go:

Tier 1

Verlander
Hamels
Kazmir
Hernandez
Gallardo

Tier 2

Cain
Lincecum
Carmona
Billingsley

Tier 3

Buchholz
Hughes
Weaver
Chamberlain

Again, that's just for this season. If we're talking long-term prospects, that would need to be shuffled quite a bit.
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Re: best young pitchers

Postby thedude » Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:04 am

Joba and Buchholz are not necessarily going to even be starting this year. But i move both of them up 1 tier.
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Re: best young pitchers

Postby bobbing_headz » Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:05 am

Here's how I rank them
Tier 1:
Verlander
Hamels

2:
Kazmir
Cain
Hernandez

3:
Liriano
Lincecum
Gallardo
Carmona
Weaver

4:
Hughes
Billingsley
Chamberlain
Buchholz

Verlander and Hamels are already established top tier pitchers and are easily the biggest locks out of these guys for putting up great numbers. In my 2nd tier all 3 guys I feel have enough experience to really break out. Putting Kazmir in Tier 1 is too high, his ratios aren't good enough and the DRays won't win enough. At 3 Lincecum and Gallardo are both guys that definitely have potential to be tier 2 or even 1 guys but valuing them any higher is too risky for 2nd year guys. Liriano also has significant risk, although probably for slightly different reasons. Still should be on the list though. Weaver is in a similar boat to someone like Cain or Hernandez but don't see him with as much talent. Carmona is not gonna repeat last year but is still a relatively safe option. Carmona/Weaver have less reward but less risk than Lincecum/Gallardo/Liriano. Tier 4 is the rest. Both Hughes and Chamberlain specifically have lots of potential but will likely have their innings capped.
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Re: best young pitchers

Postby High Heater » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:45 am

looks like alot of people forgot about Dustin McGowan, Rich Hill should be on there as well.
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Re: best young pitchers

Postby rookies and cream » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:07 am

High Heater wrote:looks like alot of people forgot about Dustin McGowan, Rich Hill should be on there as well.


Both McGowan (26) and Hill (28) are not 25 years old or younger this season.
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Re: best young pitchers

Postby Yoda » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:39 am

bobbing_headz wrote:Here's how I rank them
Tier 1:
Verlander
Hamels

2:
Kazmir
Cain
Hernandez

3:
Liriano
Lincecum
Gallardo
Carmona
Weaver

4:
Hughes
Billingsley
Chamberlain
Buchholz

Verlander and Hamels are already established top tier pitchers and are easily the biggest locks out of these guys for putting up great numbers. In my 2nd tier all 3 guys I feel have enough experience to really break out. Putting Kazmir in Tier 1 is too high, his ratios aren't good enough and the DRays won't win enough. At 3 Lincecum and Gallardo are both guys that definitely have potential to be tier 2 or even 1 guys but valuing them any higher is too risky for 2nd year guys. Liriano also has significant risk, although probably for slightly different reasons. Still should be on the list though. Weaver is in a similar boat to someone like Cain or Hernandez but don't see him with as much talent. Carmona is not gonna repeat last year but is still a relatively safe option. Carmona/Weaver have less reward but less risk than Lincecum/Gallardo/Liriano. Tier 4 is the rest. Both Hughes and Chamberlain specifically have lots of potential but will likely have their innings capped.


Liriano over Lincecum and Gallardo? LOL Maybe when he pitches a full season without his arm falling off. His mechanics were horrible and he threw way too many sliders. He can change both of those things but you are looking at a completely different pitcher if he does.

You knock down Kazmir because of his team but not Cain? SF is arguably worse on paper going into 08 and beyond.

Jered Weaver over Hughes, Bills, Joba? The guy with far inferior stuff and injury concerns?

Felix is tier 1. He has the highest ceiling of all pitchers under 25.
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Re: best young pitchers

Postby High Heater » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:42 am

rookies and cream wrote:
High Heater wrote:looks like alot of people forgot about Dustin McGowan, Rich Hill should be on there as well.


Both McGowan (26) and Hill (28) are not 25 years old or younger this season.


My apologies, i would however take dustin over alot of these guys even tho he's a year older.
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Re: best young pitchers

Postby Yoda » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:45 am

Ender wrote:I will go out on a limb and say that Gallardo will be better than Cain or Lincecum for this season. He will be better than every tier 2 pitcher you listed except maybe Felix. That is for this year only, Gallardo doesn't have quite the upside of Lincecum but he is more polished and on a better team.


I don't think you are going out of a limb by saying that. I ahve all those guys producing similarly.
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