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I just threw up in my mouth a little

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I just threw up in my mouth a little

Postby RugbyD » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:40 am

must.....supress.......rage.............

http://wnd.com/news/printer-friendly.as ... E_ID=59566

SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
Cops demand boy go to doctor because of fall during horseplay

Posted: January 7, 2008
1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Bob Unruh

Nearly a dozen members of a police SWAT team in western Colorado punched a hole in the front door and invaded a family's home with guns drawn, demanding that an 11-year-old boy who had had an accidental fall accompany them to the hospital, on the order of Garfield County Magistrate Lain Leoniak.

The boy's parents and siblings were thrown to the floor at gunpoint and the parents were handcuffed in the weekend assault, and the boy's father told WND it was all because a paramedic was upset the family preferred to care for their son themselves.

Someone, apparently the unidentified paramedic, called police, the sheriff's office and social services, eventually providing Leoniak with a report that generated the magistrate's court order to the sheriff's office for the SWAT team assault on the family's home in a mobile home development outside of Glenwood Springs, the father, Tom Shiflett, told WND.

WND calls and e-mails to Garfield County Social Services were not returned, and Leoniak, who earlier served as a water court clerk/referee, also was not available.

Sheriff Lou Vallario, however, did call back, and told WND he ordered his officers to do exactly what the magistrate demanded.

"I was given a court order by the magistrate to seize the child, and arrange for medical evaluation, and that's what we did," he said.

According to friends of the family, Tom Shiflett, who has 10 children including six still at home, and served with paramedics in Vietnam, was monitoring his son's condition himself.

The paramedic and magistrate, however, ruled that that wasn't adequate, and dispatched the officers to take the boy, John, to a hospital, where a doctor evaluated him and released him immediately.

The accident happened during horseplay, Tom Shiflett told WND. John was grabbing the door handle of a car as his sister was starting to drive away slowly. He slipped, fell to the ground and hit his head, Shiflett said.

He immediately carried his son into their home several doors away, and John was able to recite Bible verses and correctly spell words as his father and mother, Tina, requested. There were no broken bones, no dilated eyes, or any other noticeable problems.

The family, whose members live by faith and homeschool, decided not to call an ambulance. But a neighbor did call Westcare Ambulance, and paramedics responded to the home, asking to see and evaluate the boy.

The paramedics were allowed to see the boy, and found no significant impairment, but wanted to take him to the hospital for an evaluation anyway. Fearing the hospital's bills, the family refused to allow that.

"This apparently did not go over well with one of the paramedics and they started getting aggravated at Tom for not letting them have their way," a family acquaintance told WND.

"The paramedics were not at all respectful of Tom's decision, nor did they act in a manner we would expect from professional paramedics," the acquaintance said.

So the ambulance crew, who also could not be reached by WND, called police, only to be told the decision was up to the Shiflett familiy.

The paramedics then called the sheriff's office, and officers responded to the home, and were told everyone was being cared for.

Then the next day, Friday, social services workers appeared at the door and demanded to talk with John "in private."

They were so persistent Tom ended up having to get John out of the bathtub he was just soaking in, to bring him to the front porch where the social workers could see him, the family reported.

Then, following an afternoon shopping trip to town, the family settled in for the evening, only to be shocked with the SWAT team attack.

The sheriff said the decision to use SWAT team force was justified because the father was a "self-proclaimed constitutionalist" and had made threats and "comments" over the years.

However, the sheriff declined to provide a single instance of the father's illegal behavior. "I can't tell you specifically," he said.

"He was refusing to provide medical care," the sheriff said.

However, the sheriff said if his own children were involved in an at-home accident, he would want to be the one to make decisions on their healthcare, as did Shiflett.

"I guess if that was one of my children, I would make that decision," the sheriff said.

But he said Shiflett was "rude and confrontational" when the paramedics arrived and entered his home without his permission.

The sheriff also admitted that the injury to the child had been at least 24 hours earlier, because the fall apparently happened Thursday afternoon, and the SWAT attack happened late Friday evening.

Officials with the Home School Legal Defense Association reported they were looking into the case, because of requests from family friends who are members of the organization.

"While people can debate whether or not the father should have brought his son to the ER – it seems like this was not the kind of emergency that warrants this kind of outrageous conduct by government officials," a spokesman said.

Tom Shiflett said when John was evaluated by the physician, "they didn't find anything wrong with him."

He said the paramedics never should have entered his home, but they followed his wife in the front door when she came in.

"My attention was on my son," Shiflett said.

He said the SWAT team punched a hole in his door with a ramrod, and the first officer in the home pointed a gun right in the face of Tom's 20-year-old daughter.

"I don't know where social services ever got started, or where they got their authority," he said. "But I want to know why we have something in this country that violates our rights, that takes a parental right away."

He said he saw a multitude of injuries in Vietnam, and while he recognized that his son needed to be watched, he wasn't willing to turn his child over to the paramedics.

With 10 children, most of them older than John, it's not as if he hasn't seen a bruise or two, either, he said.

"Now I'm hunting for lawyers that will take the case … I'm going to sue everybody whose name was on that page right down to the judge," he said.

Mike Donnelly, a lawyer with the HSLDA, told WND the case had a set of circumstances that could be problematic for authorities.

"In Doe V. Heck, the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals held that parents have a fundamental right to familial relations including a liberty interest in the care, custody and control of their children," he said.

He also said many social services agencies apply "a one size fits all approach" to cases, regardless of circumstances


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080108/ap_ ... dical_raid

NEW CASTLE, Colo. - An armed law enforcement team broke down the door of a family home with a battering ram and took an 11-year-old to a hospital after authorities feared he was not getting proper medical care for what turned out to be a minor head injury.

Garfield County's All Hazards Response Team raided the home Friday night, a day after Jon Shiflett fell after grabbing the handle of a moving car. Someone — possibly a neighbor — called paramedics.

Jon's father, Tom Shiflett, 62, told paramedics he didn't want them to treat Jon and asked them to leave. He told them he had served as a medic in Vietnam and he had the skill to treat his son.

Caseworkers who later visited the family reported seeing injuries that included a "huge hematoma" and a sluggish pupil. They went before a judge seeking a search warrant and order for medical treatment, citing affidavits from the ambulance crew.

Following the raid, a doctor recommended Jon be given fluids, Tylenol and ice to treat the bruises, according to a copy of the child's patient aftercare instructions.

"Inappropriate is not nearly strong enough a word. It was gross irresponsibility and stupidity," said Ross Talbott, owner of the Apple Tree Mobile Home Park south of New Castle, who rents to the Shifletts and who witnessed the raid. "Is this Russia? I don't know what we're coming to when they think your kid needs medical help and they send a SWAT team."

Garfield County Director of Social Services Lynn Rennick said her office is legally required to intervene when it receives a report about possible mistreatment of children, and that court orders are sometimes necessary. She wouldn't discuss any specific case.

The child was returned to the family at about 2:30 a.m. Saturday, hours after the raid.

"In all, there was not one shred of evidence found that we had done anything wrong or that Jon had not been properly cared for at home," said Tina Shiflett, Jon's mother.
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Re: I just threw up in my mouth a little

Postby Madison » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:06 pm

I understand force being used to protect a child from parents that don't want to spend money on care for the child, but 24 hours after the fact? :-? Kid could have been dead by then, so I'm missing the point of this amount of force being used.

And which report is true? Is the kid fine other than a bruise or two, or does he have a "huge hematoma and a sluggish pupil"? :-?

Whole thing seems crazy to me. I mean the father is nuts for not wanting the paramedics to take a look, going so far as to say they never should have entered the home. Sounds like he's hiding something there, or flat doesn't want to pay a possible medical bill (which is pathetic when it comes to making sure your kid is ok :-t ). I grant him his service as a medic, but unless he can do X-rays, MRI's, or whatever else, the boy most likely should have been checked out at the hospital. On the flipside, the judge and court are nuts. 24 hours after the fact? Awful, simply awful. I don't fault SWAT, they were following orders and had no choice but to do what the judge ordered them to do. Everyone else in this story is just a loony tune. :-b
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Re: I just threw up in my mouth a little

Postby StlSluggers » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:17 pm

The paramedics were allowed to see the boy, and found no significant impairment, but wanted to take him to the hospital for an evaluation anyway. Fearing the hospital's bills, the family refused to allow that.

Assuming there's nothing more to this than what's in the story, then this is where it should have ended.
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Re: I just threw up in my mouth a little

Postby Madison » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:02 pm

StlSluggers wrote:
The paramedics were allowed to see the boy, and found no significant impairment, but wanted to take him to the hospital for an evaluation anyway. Fearing the hospital's bills, the family refused to allow that.

Assuming there's nothing more to this than what's in the story, then this is where it should have ended.


Agreed, but the other story said:

Caseworkers who later visited the family reported seeing injuries that included a "huge hematoma" and a sluggish pupil.


So it begs the question, which is it?

Makes all the difference in the world on this. :-?
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Re: I just threw up in my mouth a little

Postby StlSluggers » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:07 pm

As I recall, the first article said the paramedics weren't interviewed for this story. Would be nice to hear why they were so dedicated to getting this kid help when, by their supposed admission, he was fine. Either way, I find it hard to believe that SWAT was needed here.

:-S
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Re: I just threw up in my mouth a little

Postby RugbyD » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:09 pm

huge hematoma = scary-sounding technical jargon for "big bruise".

OMG!! sombody fell and got a bruise?!?!! oh the horror of it all!!!
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Re: I just threw up in my mouth a little

Postby Madison » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:49 pm

RugbyD wrote:huge hematoma = scary-sounding technical jargon for "big bruise".

OMG!! sombody fell and got a bruise?!?!! oh the horror of it all!!!


Not necessarily. Blood causes a bruise of course, but if the blood is still pooling and collecting under the skin, that can cause real problems.

Not saying that's what it was and it wasn't simply a large bruise, as I have no idea and not enough reliable info to know. It all just depends on the real story.

*Hypothetically* - IF the child did have a massive hematoma and the father refused medical treatment for the kid, and the kid ended up dead, everyone would be screaming about the authorities allowing it to happen. Sounds to me like the judge didn't have the full story either, so he ordered SWAT to get that kid. While I agree the force they used sounds like overkill to say the least, which is better? Use SWAT, get the kid medically checked out, and everyone lives happily ever after - or - for the authorities to ignore it because the father didn't want the bill, and allow the child to possibly die, have brain damage, or live with any other number of injuries? I'm not defending the judge here even though it might seem that way, I'm just saying this is hard to have a strong opinion on when not all of the facts are here or make sense. Busting down the door, cuffing the parents, etc, all sounds like too much force. That's really about all I can say without knowing what "really" happened.
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Re: I just threw up in my mouth a little

Postby thedude » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:52 pm

Unless the paramedics agree, i am not inclined to believe the father when he says the his child received a clean bill of health.
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Re: I just threw up in my mouth a little

Postby StlSluggers » Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:09 pm

I need to point out that I laughed at one point in this article...

"The sheriff said the decision to use SWAT team force was justified because the father was a "self-proclaimed constitutionalist" and had made threats and "comments" over the years.

I think it's funny that the term "constitutionalist" is supposed to be scary here. Not the Constitution!!! :-D
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Re: I just threw up in my mouth a little

Postby knapplc » Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:26 pm

This kid could get tetanus from scraping his arm with a rusty nail, and that could kill him just the same as a temporal hematoma, but I'm sure nobody here would advocate forcefully taking a child from their home to get a bruise treated, would they?

A kid could die from the flu, but every kid that gets the flu doesn't go see the doctor, nor should they be forced to. But if we follow the logic used by the people in this article, if I don't take my daughter to the doctor, I forfeit my rights and the police can knock down my door? I don't think so.
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