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Re: Iowa Caucuses

Postby IllinoisBandit » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:19 pm

Uh... Ron Paul has been a Republican since the 1970's. Historically, he's the only Republican running. Do not confuse neo-conservative with Republican; as a Republican I take offense to that ;p

And he's the least homophobic/racist person you'd ever meet. He brings up MLK more than Obama does.
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Re: Iowa Caucuses

Postby bigh0rt » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:39 pm

IllinoisBandit wrote:And he's the least homophobic/racist person you'd ever meet. He brings up MLK more than Obama does.

Man I hope this sentence was intended to be as funny as it was. :-D :-b
Last edited by bigh0rt on Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Iowa Caucuses

Postby Amazinz » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:45 pm

Ron Paul has run as a Libertarian in the past. There are large segments of Republicans and Libertarians that share A LOT in common. Also, Libertarian does not equal NeoCon so that comment doesn't really fit.
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Re: Iowa Caucuses

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:53 am

IllinoisBandit wrote:He brings up MLK more than Obama does.

Unfortunately, you're right:
The Ron Paul Newsletter wrote:An October 1990 edition of the Political Report ridicules black activists, led by Al Sharpton, for demonstrating at the Statue of Liberty in favor of renaming New York City after Martin Luther King. The newsletter suggests that "Welfaria," "Zooville," "Rapetown," "Dirtburg," and "Lazyopolis" would be better alternatives--and says, "Next time, hold that demonstration at a food stamp bureau or a crack house."
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Re: Iowa Caucuses

Postby RugbyD » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:42 am

Art Vandelay wrote:
IllinoisBandit wrote:He brings up MLK more than Obama does.

Unfortunately, you're right:
The Ron Paul Newsletter wrote:An October 1990 edition of the Political Report ridicules black activists, led by Al Sharpton, for demonstrating at the Statue of Liberty in favor of renaming New York City after Martin Luther King. The newsletter suggests that "Welfaria," "Zooville," "Rapetown," "Dirtburg," and "Lazyopolis" would be better alternatives--and says, "Next time, hold that demonstration at a food stamp bureau or a crack house."

Do your research before attributing quotes to particular people. These issues came up in both 1996 and 2001 and were explained at the time. It is commonly understood that Ron Paul did not pen these and many other like-sounding diatribes over a span of years. That he lent his name to publications without exercising any reasonable oversight is sorely disappointing, at best. The extent to which ghostwriters were allowed to run amok with apparently little to zero supervision under his name was more extensive than I had previously known. Ron Paul's irresponsibility with the past use of his name has made him personally unqualified to hold office in my eyes and will lead to yet another year of principled abstention for RugbyD in most elections.

Ron Paul's public record of speeches, specifically attributed writings, and his full body of congressional work are enough to fully convince me that the views of certain objectionable items printed in various newsletters carrying his name are certainly not his own. I expect more info to be available today on the underlying nature of things and will post accordingly. His campaign managers are idiots for how they've handled this, or worse, how they didn't handle this earlier on their own. Ron hasn't helped himself by indicating that he's tired of explaining this, but he needs to realize that on the national stage many people are hearing things for the first time and will rightfully demand an explanation.

What I hope does not happen is that his message becomes marginalized by an issue separate from the substance it bears.
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Re: Iowa Caucuses

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:36 am

Whether or not he actually wrote that is immaterial. Ron Paul is ultimately responsible for anything that appeared in the Ron Paul Newsletter. It's not as if it was one or two isolated instances, there are roughly 20 years worth of the newsletter rife with racist, homophobic, and otherwise unseemly commentary. If he disagreed with what was being attributed to him, he could have and should have put a stop to it. But he didn't, he allowed it to continue unchecked for years. Is there really that much of a difference between saying something like that, and knowingly allowing something like that to be attributed to you without stopping it?

If I give a friend my password, and he logs onto the cafe and posts a bunch of racist stuff under my name, then I come on, read what he wrote, don't refute it, and allow him to keep posting similar stuff under my name, I'm responsible for what is said.
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Re: Iowa Caucuses

Postby RugbyD » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:52 am

Art Vandelay wrote:Whether or not he actually wrote that is immaterial. Ron Paul is ultimately responsible for anything that appeared in the Ron Paul Newsletter. It's not as if it was one or two isolated instances, there are roughly 20 years worth of the newsletter rife with racist, homophobic, and otherwise unseemly commentary. If he disagreed with what was being attributed to him, he could have and should have put a stop to it. But he didn't, he allowed it to continue unchecked for years. Is there really that much of a difference between saying something like that, and knowingly allowing something like that to be attributed to you without stopping it?

If I give a friend my password, and he logs onto the cafe and posts a bunch of racist stuff under my name, then I come on, read what he wrote, don't refute it, and allow him to keep posting similar stuff under my name, I'm responsible for what is said.

What isn't known is the extent to which he knew and how long after the fact he found out. I can't imagine it was zero. He has refuted the statements multiple times of multiple years, but like I've stated, the general lack of oversight is very troubling. I'm expecting more details to come out today, none of which I expect to change my mind that he is no longer a viable vessel for the message he has promoted.

In short form, I don't think it is fair to attribute these statemants as his personal beliefs like you have when the body of public work that can directly attributed to his pen or voice is diametrically opposite in both style and substance.
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