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RIAA: Putting a Legal CD On Your Comp Is Stealing

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Re: RIAA: Putting a Legal CD On Your Comp Is Stealing

Postby Madison » Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:11 am

Coppermine wrote:
Madison wrote:
In a Los Angeles Times poll, 69 percent of teenagers surveyed said they thought it was legal to copy a CD they own and give it to a friend.


If anything is as stupid as the RIAA in this, it's that ^^^^.


In the digital age, is that really so far-fetched?


Yes. Most videogames are on CD/DVD now, not to mention DVD movies, and movies are just as easy to make copies of as music. Games are a little tougher, but still possible. Anyway, by the logic these kids are supposedly using, they don't believe copying those items and giving them to their friends would be illegal either. And we're not supposed to think that 69% are stupid? Now that's funny. :-b

And where did I say I agreed with the RIAA? I said it was stupid too. If someone burns a CD onto their own computer for their own use, I see no problems with that. Some people buy CD's specifically to put on their IPods or whatever. Making copies and passing them out is where the problem is, yet these teenagers lack the common sense to understand that giving out copies is illegal? It's things exactly like this that make the general youth of America look dumb to grown adults. If you don't like the impression some of us have on the general youth in America due to their stupidity and continued proof of it with things like this, I'd suggest educating them in common sense matters, rather than defend them with such a *classy* post. The latter doesn't do any good. B-)
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Re: RIAA: Putting a Legal CD On Your Comp Is Stealing

Postby Coppermine » Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:37 am

Coppermin wrote:
Madison wrote:
Madison wrote:
If anything is as stupid as the RIAA in this, it's that ^^^^. [69 percent of teenagers surveyed said they thought it was legal to copy a CD they own and give it to a friend.]


In the digital age, is that really so far-fetched?


Yes. Most videogames are on CD/DVD now, not to mention DVD movies, and movies are just as easy to make copies of as music. Games are a little tougher, but still possible. Anyway, by the logic these kids are supposedly using, they don't believe copying those items and giving them to their friends would be illegal either. And we're not supposed to think that 69% are stupid? Now that's funny. :-b

And where did I say I agreed with the RIAA? I said it was stupid too. If someone burns a CD onto their own computer for their own use, I see no problems with that. Some people buy CD's specifically to put on their IPods or whatever. Making copies and passing them out is where the problem is, yet these teenagers lack the common sense to understand that giving out copies is illegal? It's things exactly like this that make the general youth of America look dumb to grown adults. If you don't like the impression some of us have on the general youth in America due to their stupidity and continued proof of it with things like this, I'd suggest educating them in common sense matters, rather than defend them with such a *classy* post. The latter doesn't do any good. B-)


It's seriously as if you ignored the rest of my *classy* post. It's not far fetched, we're not talking about video games, and we're not talking about DVD's. We're talking about teenagers making the modern equivalent of "mix tapes" to give to their friends. Gee, and all this time I thought the problem was in Peer to Peer file sharing. Turns out the real "morons" are teenagers sharing music (that may otherwise go unnoticed) with their friends. Boy, those record companies must be shaking in their boots knowing 69% of teens may be sharing some Kanye West with 3 or 4 of their friends because grown ups didn't tell them otherwise. What idiots!

Where did I say you agreed with the RIAA? You just seem to think anyone under the age of 20 is moron. Yes, can you effing believe that I am defending the right of 16 year olds to give a CD of music ripped from their own music collection to their friends. Oh my goodness, how that is destroying all that is American and democratic and in the best interest of record companies. No, they may not share their songs on Limewire or BitTorrent, but giving a CD to their girlfriend is certainly an illegal infraction that they should be aware of, and not being aware is certainly worthy of labeling them as stupid.

It's such a joke that this is the sort of thing that makes the "youth of America" look dumb to "grown adults." Especially since it seems to me that most adults don't even know how to burn a music CD and that MP3's are known collectively as "Ipods." Geez, these grown adults should know better when they buy their kids MP3 players, especially if they share their MP3's with their friends. Yeah, that's exactly what most adults I know use to consider today's youth as "dumb." These parents really need to educate their stupid teens when they buy them Ipods with legal disclaimers like "you can't use this if you share the music with your friends" or "if you share these songs with your friends, you're grounded for a month, mister!" I'm soooo glad I don't live in the Madison household.

Seriously, grown ups really need to teach more common sense before empowering today's youth with stupidity in digital form.
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Re: RIAA: Putting a Legal CD On Your Comp Is Stealing

Postby Madison » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:21 am

Coppermine wrote:It's seriously as if you ignored the rest of my *classy* post. It's not far fetched, we're not talking about video game, and we're not talking about DVD's. We're talking about teenagers making the moder equivalent of "mix tapes" to give to their friends. Gee, and all this time I thought the problem was in Peer to Peer file sharing. Turns out the real "morons" are teenagers sharing music (that may otherwise go unnoticed) with their friends. Boy, those record companies must be shaking in their boots knowing 69% of teens may be sharing some Kanye West with 3 or 4 of their friends.

Where did I say you agreed with the RIAA? You just seem to think anyone under the age of 20 is moron. Yes, can you effing belive that I am defending the right of 16 year olds to give a CD of music ripped from their own music collection to their friends. Oh my goodness, how that is destroying all that is American and democratic and in the best interest of record companies. No, they may not share their songs on Limewire or BitTorrent, but giving a CD to their girlfriend is certainly an illegal infraction that they should be aware of, and not being aware is certainly worthy of labeling the as stupid.

It's such a joke that this is the sort of thing that makes the "youth of America" look dumb to "grown adults." Especially since it seems to me that most adults don't even know how to burn a music CD and that MP3's are known collectively as "Ipods." Geez, these grown adults should know better when they buy their kids MP3 players, especially if they share their MP3's with their friends. Yeah, that's exactly what most adults I know use to consider today's youth as "dumb." These parents really need to educate their stupid teens when they buy them Ipods with legal disclaimers like "you can't use this if you share the music with your friends" or "if you share these songs with your friends, you're ground for a month, mister!"

Seriously, grown ups really need to teach more common sense before empowering today's youth with stupidity in digital form.


How can you overlook videogames and movies? It's the exact same thing, and in the case of movies, just as easy to do. It's like you saying kids stealing Pepsi is ok, but stealing Dr. Pepper isn't the same thing. Why exclude one when the bottomline is the same? Doesn't make sense to exclude movies at the very least from this discussion. Games I'll give you, as it would take a bit more to get started there, but movies are no different than music. What percentage of kids wouldn't know that burning copies of movies and giving them away would be illegal? I'd bet it's significantly smaller than 69%. So what makes music different in their eyes, and ok to steal, or why is it that they can't they connect the dots and understand it's the exact same thing as stealing movies (actual question in case you're wondering)? So for those without the mental capacity to make that connection, then yes, I call them stupid because it's true. If I'm going to be accused of saying that, I might as well get my money's worth and say it a few times. B-)

I never said anything about the record companies shaking in their boots, or that the "real" problem is kids breaking the law and giving music away. I simply said that 69% of kids not knowing that giving away burned CD's is stealing, is dumb. Where are the parents? Where's the educational system? Plus the article said "teenagers", so where's the common sense? I didn't even say anything like "stupid kids", even though they do share in the responsibility of learning something as simple as this. I said "IT" was stupid. Here, check for yourself:

Madison wrote:
In a Los Angeles Times poll, 69 percent of teenagers surveyed said they thought it was legal to copy a CD they own and give it to a friend.


If anything is as stupid as the RIAA in this, it's that ^^^^.


You just assumed I called the kids stupid instead of actually reading what I wrote. My actual post said "IT" or "THAT" (meaning the fact that 69% didn't know) was stupid. You just couldn't wait to attack, so you read it how you wanted to, instead of how it was actually written. Granted, I do believe those kids to be stupid, but that's not what I originally posted that you baselessly attacked over. ;-)

I will give you that some adults are as dumb as a box of rocks too. No disagreement here. And no, I don't think everyone under the age of 20 is stupid. We've got a lot of fine young adults on the various Cafes, and I know quite a few fine young adults in real life. Some are smarter than a large percentage of adults. Even the article said 69% didn't know, so that leaves 31%, almost 1-in-3 that have some sort of decent head on their shoulders, or are quite bright in some cases I'm sure. 1-in-3 is far from "all". However, it's well over half, so the "general" level of education for the youth of America is lacking severly. Why not lash out at the educational system? Or the parents (even though maybe you did with that last sentence, hard to tell if you're being sarcastic there or not)? Why lash out at me for something I didn't say? Because I think "it's" (the situation) stupid that those kids didn't know (which is what I wrote if you care to actually read the words that were written)?

Interesting that you'd defend theft, and if you had handled yourself better I might have been interested in discussing it with you (Like at what point theft should be illegal? Where's the line to what stealing is ok, and what stealing isn't, exactly?). Maybe I'd have learned something. But I know this won't go anywhere since you didn't even bother to read what it was I wrote originally. So I hope you got your kicks, laughs, or whatever it was you wanted out of this baseless attack. Me, these posts are enough that my point has been explained, you've represented yourself, and I'll move on to something more productive. B-)

Well just to be safe, in case my point is still unclear, one last time in clear English:

I think it's stupid that parents don't teach their kids better. I think it's stupid that the education system lets this fall through the cracks and it doesn't get taught (NOTE - I'm not referring to the teachers, the entire educational system needs an overhaul, and that's not news to anyone). I think it's stupid that such a high percentage of teenagers who know that doing the exact same thing with movies or videogames is illegal, lack the common sense to connect the dots and realize music is no different. I don't believe this particular thing should be a major concern for the music companies, but that doesn't make it any less illegal. As to the point of the article and the thread itself (copying something you bought to your computer for your own use, being illegal), I agree the RIAA is being stupid here.
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Re: RIAA: Putting a Legal CD On Your Comp Is Stealing

Postby JTWood » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:43 am

I agree with Mad insomuch as that I was pretty floored by that number.
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Re: RIAA: Putting a Legal CD On Your Comp Is Stealing

Postby Tavish » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:59 am

Coppermine wrote:
Madison wrote:
In a Los Angeles Times poll, 69 percent of teenagers surveyed said they thought it was legal to copy a CD they own and give it to a friend.


If anything is as stupid as the RIAA in this, it's that ^^^^.


In the digital age, is that really so far-fetched?


I think it is even more far-fetched in the digital age than it was back when I was a kid. When Napster first came on the scene I could understand people not understanding that it was illegal simply due to the newness of the process. Between the media ads, the lawsuits, the takedown of Napster, and on and on I don't think the ignorance excuse is all that valid anymore.

Digital copies aren't tangible... don't steal a candy bar/magazine/pair of scissors is far more logical than "don't make a copy of you're CD or it's stealing." Come on Mad, you never made a "mix tape" for the mrs. when you two were "courting?" Maybe some Boyz II Men or Barry White? Perhaps some New Kids On The Block? Because that was illegal too. Making restrictions on digital, non-tangible things like MP3 files is far harder than anything because it violates common sense. I think it's perfectly reasonable and logical to assume that teenagers would be unaware of the copyright infringement in sharing MP3 files they've ripped from CD's considering how easy and accessible it is.


I've always found that to be a cope out. Simply because it is easy doesn't make it legal and anyone who believes that is trying to make an excuse for their actions. It's like buying cartons of cigarettes from a guy selling them out of the back of his car. It's a great deal for me but its fairly obvious that things aren't on the up and up.

Every time you watched a video in history class your teacher taped off of PBS, you broke the law. I sure hope you reported him Madison, because I'm not sure how you lived with yourself otherwise.


Not exactly. PBS typically negotiates with the copyright owner to provide a lifetime rebroadcast license for education purposes.

I mean, seriously... 16-year-old Madison, assuming he doesn't watch the news every five seconds just like every young person since the beginning of time, gets a CD and learns how to, in 30 seconds, turn it into twelve, individual MP3 files. You're telling me that throwing those onto a thirty-cent compact disc and not realizing that you're BREAKING THE FRIGGIN LAW doesn't come across as a bit unreasonable or unrealistic?


Ignorance is not an excuse. Because I give my kid a car that goes 125 MPH does not give him a get out of jail free card for speeding. The laws and information is out there, if they choose not to pay attention then it is on them. If parents enable them through their own ignorance then it is on them as well. Pirating files is no longer the newest fad so the "I didn't know it was illegal" line doesn't have much strength.
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Re: RIAA: Putting a Legal CD On Your Comp Is Stealing

Postby Tavish » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:25 am

More on point with the original article. The lawsuit really isn't any different than the past lawsuits although the wording is a little different. The original hub-bub over Howell being sued for ripping copies of his music (which is legal under copyright laws) was incorrect. He is being sued for the same thing everyone else has been. he was downloading via Kazaa and storing the music in a shared folder which made it downloadable for others.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/30/riaa-not-suing-over-cd-ripping-still-kinda-being-jerks-about-it/
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Re: RIAA: Putting a Legal CD On Your Comp Is Stealing

Postby RyanK » Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:00 pm

i guess ill bite the bullet here... I did not know it was illegal to burn a compact disc...

this is slightly absurd...

also, I thought itunes had a feature where you buy songs off music store you can only put them on CD "X" amount of times?
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Re: RIAA: Putting a Legal CD On Your Comp Is Stealing

Postby The Artful Dodger » Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:20 pm

Tavish wrote:More on point with the original article. The lawsuit really isn't any different than the past lawsuits although the wording is a little different. The original hub-bub over Howell being sued for ripping copies of his music (which is legal under copyright laws) was incorrect. He is being sued for the same thing everyone else has been. he was downloading via Kazaa and storing the music in a shared folder which made it downloadable for others.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/30/riaa-not-suing-over-cd-ripping-still-kinda-being-jerks-about-it/


Yes, pretty much the same thing. Even though it's not been ruled fair use, technically it's fair use to rip CD's for creating your own personal MP3 library. Seems like the press were trigger-happy to announce that anyone was legally liable for just ripping their CD's for personal use.
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Re: RIAA: Putting a Legal CD On Your Comp Is Stealing

Postby StlSluggers » Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:23 pm

RyanK wrote:also, I thought itunes had a feature where you buy songs off music store you can only put them on CD "X" amount of times?

You can only burn an identical playlist 7 times. Make any modification to it (except for track order), and you get around that problem.
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Re: RIAA: Putting a Legal CD On Your Comp Is Stealing

Postby Tavish » Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:38 pm

RyanK wrote:i guess ill bite the bullet here... I did not know it was illegal to burn a compact disc...

this is slightly absurd...


It is not illegal to burn a CD. It is illegal to burn a CD and give it to someone else. That is redistribution.

also, I thought itunes had a feature where you buy songs off music store you can only put them on CD "X" amount of times?

You do not buy "songs" from iTunes. You buy a license to use a song. That license can any sort of privileges that Apple has negotiated with the copyright holder. I have never actually used iTunes but IIRC they were offering a iTunes Plus license for some songs which was basically a restriction free version (read: no DRM) for a slightly higher price. Or you could buy a restricted license which allowed it to be shared amongst X number of computers.

Either way, none of the iTunes' license give you the legal right to burn a copy and give it to a friend. They are for personal use.
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