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Re: PETE ROSE

Postby mweir145 » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:47 am

Rose didn't have to agree to a lifetime ban, and he did. He's made his own bed here. He also knows that betting on the game is far worse in the eyes of baseball people than using steroids as PED use as been part of that culture ever since he started as a player. Don't take anything he's said here seriously, it's just another failing attempt to get people to open up to his cause.
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Re: PETE ROSE

Postby Lofunzo » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:08 am

mweir145 wrote:Rose didn't have to agree to a lifetime ban, and he did. He's made his own bed here. He also knows that betting on the game is far worse in the eyes of baseball people than using steroids as PED use as been part of that culture ever since he started as a player. Don't take anything he's said here seriously, it's just another failing attempt to get people to open up to his cause.


Agreed. I'm with you on that. I also think that, indirectly, that's why Bonds and Clemens want to take their steroid use to the grave. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose by admitting to anything.
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Re: PETE ROSE

Postby BronXBombers51 » Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:45 am

RyanK wrote:
BigLebowski wrote:I'll bet ya that he does get in. He deserves to be in.



same..

the double standard here is so sickening... im all for Pete Rose being the biggest ass he can be right now, he deserves to be in the hall of fame for every reason, IMO, the hall stands for. Pete Rose's actions of betting on his team to win, i see as nothing that should punish what he did as a player. the only thing that would discredit waht i just said in my mind, is if theres evidence of him betting against his team and in effect playing worse or not playing to his full abilty in order to benifit himself monetarily.

If you were Pete Rose, kept out of the hall for betting on your own team to win; actually better yet, banned for life, and players are shattering records/playing longer/earning more/etc because of illegal performance enhancing drugs (yes, the rules where lax/basically nothing/no drug testing, but now you got caught, pay the piper) and looking at still having hall of fame chances for some of them. Wouldnt that make you slightly upset?


If i were in Roses disposition i would make a huge stir over this to get into the hall, either let me in or keep them out... the easiest thing for Bud to do would be to just let him in... though if he really wants to do what he should, as much as it sucks to say, uproot baseball and ban players/erase records/stats.. or implement a year long suspension and monitored drug tests monthly to be allowed back in... basically... this is/can/will be a horrible situation for baseball.

just let the sport be pure again... please


The point is, Rose broke the rules. The PED users didn't, until after 2003. Whether the punishment for Rose's rule is stupid or not, he still broke it. I happen to think that Rose's accomplishments as a player should be in the HOF. But I fully understand MLBs decision to ban him, based on the fact that he broke one of the biggest rules in the game. Steroid users did no such thing. And there is nobody but MLB to blame for that.

I would be offended if Rose tried to compare himself to these guys, or if MLB considered his case along with the PED problem. They are completely different. Rose broke an established rule. You might argue that these guys 'cheated the game' (I'd disagree), but MLB did nothing to prevent or stop it. Rose knowingly broke a rule that could have affected the performance of his team.
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Re: PETE ROSE

Postby BronXBombers51 » Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:48 am

RyanK wrote:
just let the sport be pure again... please


See, here's the issue. Baseball was never pure. It was perceived to be so, but it wasn't. Steroids didn't make the game dirty. None of these records are legitimate, dating all the way back to Ruth. Baseball didn't lose his purity when big bad Barry came into being. It lost it long before that, but nobody seemed to notice.
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Re: PETE ROSE

Postby apz » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:35 am

I have more respect for Rose than for the Roiders. Sure Pete broke baseball rules, but he didn't cheat like those guys did. I'd much rather see Pete in the HoF than Bonds or Clemens. No way Bonds breaks the HR record without PEDs and that makes all the difference for me. Some have said there were no rules against roids or HGH, but every guy that took them broke the law in doing so. Don't most if not all players have clauses in their contracts pertaining to illegal activity?
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Re: PETE ROSE

Postby BronXBombers51 » Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:12 am

apz wrote:I have more respect for Rose than for the Roiders. Sure Pete broke baseball rules, but he didn't cheat like those guys did. I'd much rather see Pete in the HoF than Bonds or Clemens. No way Bonds breaks the HR record without PEDs and that makes all the difference for me. Some have said there were no rules against roids or HGH, but every guy that took them broke the law in doing so. Don't most if not all players have clauses in their contracts pertaining to illegal activity?


Once again...

...then by that logic, getting a speeding ticket is a punishable offense as well, since that's breaking the law. If you're going to say baseball players can be punished for breaking the law, then that pertains to all laws. You can't pick and choose. Well, actually you can, but you need to SPECIFY that in your rulebook, which MLB failed to do until 2003.
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Re: PETE ROSE

Postby apz » Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:28 am

BronXBombers51 wrote:
apz wrote:I have more respect for Rose than for the Roiders. Sure Pete broke baseball rules, but he didn't cheat like those guys did. I'd much rather see Pete in the HoF than Bonds or Clemens. No way Bonds breaks the HR record without PEDs and that makes all the difference for me. Some have said there were no rules against roids or HGH, but every guy that took them broke the law in doing so. Don't most if not all players have clauses in their contracts pertaining to illegal activity?


Once again...

...then by that logic, getting a speeding ticket is a punishable offense as well, since that's breaking the law. If you're going to say baseball players can be punished for breaking the law, then that pertains to all laws. You can't pick and choose. Well, actually you can, but you need to SPECIFY that in your rulebook, which MLB failed to do until 2003.

Players took the PEDs in order to cheat. Getting a speeding ticket doesn't effect your stats.

Also, there was an attempt by Fay Vincent in 1991 to ban illegal substance; though the players' union never agreed to it. Here's a link to the memo. http://www.steroidsinbaseball.net/c/memo.pdf
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Re: PETE ROSE

Postby dclark0699 » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:07 am

I say he gets in.

I don't see how betting ON YOUR OWN TEAM is really such a bad thing. I understand the rules prohibit it, but it isn't like you are betting on the other team and then throwing the game. Betting on yourself seems like it would make you play harder, so where is the problem?
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Re: PETE ROSE

Postby BronXBombers51 » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:22 am

apz wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
apz wrote:I have more respect for Rose than for the Roiders. Sure Pete broke baseball rules, but he didn't cheat like those guys did. I'd much rather see Pete in the HoF than Bonds or Clemens. No way Bonds breaks the HR record without PEDs and that makes all the difference for me. Some have said there were no rules against roids or HGH, but every guy that took them broke the law in doing so. Don't most if not all players have clauses in their contracts pertaining to illegal activity?


Once again...

...then by that logic, getting a speeding ticket is a punishable offense as well, since that's breaking the law. If you're going to say baseball players can be punished for breaking the law, then that pertains to all laws. You can't pick and choose. Well, actually you can, but you need to SPECIFY that in your rulebook, which MLB failed to do until 2003.

Players took the PEDs in order to cheat. Getting a speeding ticket doesn't effect your stats.

Also, there was an attempt by Fay Vincent in 1991 to ban illegal substance; though the players' union never agreed to it. Here's a link to the memo. http://www.steroidsinbaseball.net/c/memo.pdf


If MLB considers PED usage cheating, they need to say that in their rulebook. They can't just say "well, it's against the law so it's cheating" because plenty of things are against the law, like speeding tickets. If MLB wants to have the right to punish PED-users, they need to specify a policy regarding it in their rulebook. MLB failed to do so until 2003, so they have no grounds for punishing anyone who used before then. And even if Bonds was caught using PEDs right now, his records shouldn't be touched. There is nothing in the policy that says a punishment for PED-use is an asterisk next to stats or banning from the HOF or baseball. If Bonds tests positive post-2003, he should get the 50 game suspension, just like everyone else.
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Re: PETE ROSE

Postby Yoda » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:27 am

apz wrote:I have more respect for Rose than for the Roiders. Sure Pete broke baseball rules, but he didn't cheat like those guys did. I'd much rather see Pete in the HoF than Bonds or Clemens. No way Bonds breaks the HR record without PEDs and that makes all the difference for me. Some have said there were no rules against roids or HGH, but every guy that took them broke the law in doing so. Don't most if not all players have clauses in their contracts pertaining to illegal activity?


I can't imagine anything worse that you can do than a MLB manager betting on the game that he is managing.
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