apz wrote:He says it so people won't attribute his stats to steroid use. There are also those that won't vote him into the HoF if they think he was using PEDs. Let's see if he testifies before congress under oath. Is he as stupid as Palmiero?
Technically Palmeiro wasn't lying if he didn't use steroids before he testified. He only tested positive afterwards.
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Hvordan har du det?/Hvordan går det? Jeg lært ... i en måned. (How Are You? I've Been Learning Norwegian For 1 Month)
I'm just saying that he didn't test positive before the testimony. He's obviously stupid for getting caught but it's hard to say that he was lying. That's all.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
05worldserieschamps wrote:Im not saying this to defend Clemens' integrity, but his intelligence. Surely, after what has just happened to Bonds, he wouldnt deny it in the way he did if he really did take steroids. They had him using them pre 2002, so the punishment shouldnt be extremely harsh, so why lie? Im going against the grain and saying he is telling the truth. I just cant see how someone could come out and say this, and if he is lying, then he is dumb and he will get caught.
Why lie? Because by admitting to the allegations of McNamee everything in his career that he's ever worked for will be looked at in a different light by the media and the public. With steroid use on his resume, his once-assured HOF spot would be gone. The last thing he would care about is a small suspension in a league he likely wasn't ever going to pitch in again. He, as opposed to McNamee, actually has huge reasons to lie about this.
What you said is partly true, though. These denials could lead to guys like Fanaru-Wada/Williams going back into Clemens' past and finding the truth about him from someone who might be willing to talk.
05worldserieschamps wrote:Im not saying this to defend Clemens' integrity, but his intelligence. Surely, after what has just happened to Bonds, he wouldnt deny it in the way he did if he really did take steroids. They had him using them pre 2002, so the punishment shouldnt be extremely harsh, so why lie? Im going against the grain and saying he is telling the truth. I just cant see how someone could come out and say this, and if he is lying, then he is dumb and he will get caught.
Why lie? Because by admitting to the allegations of McNamee everything in his career that he's ever worked for will be looked at in a different light by the media and the public. With steroid use on his resume, his once-assured HOF spot would be gone. The last thing he would care about is a small suspension in a league he likely wasn't ever going to pitch in again. He, as opposed to McNamee, actually has huge reasons to lie about this.
What you said is partly true, though. These denials could lead to guys like Fanaru-Wada/Williams going back into Clemens' past and finding the truth about him from someone who might be willing to talk.
Agreed. I think I said in another thread that Clemens and Bonds have everything to lose and nothing to gain by admitting use so they will do whatever they can to take it to the grave. It's nice and admirable for the Roberts, Santangelos, and Pettittes of the world to come clean but, at the end of the day, it was much easier for them to do it than it would be for Clemens and Bonds. What do those players really have to lose by coming "clean"?? The HOF is a true honor and their admission of guilt would all but kill their chances to get in. At least in the foreseeable future.
I think Clemens has most likely used PEDs on a regular basis. However, I don't care, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt (at least in terms of official punishment being handed down by MLB). It's one thing if there is a positive test, but what so-and-so says someone told him they overheard that one guy talking about doesn't matter to me.
I think odds are he did, but like many above have said it's not really my place to judge Clemens as a person based on what he did or didn't do and my assumptions of what he did or didn't do. I'll leave that to the HoF voters.
However as an Aggie it is fun to bag on him in front of t-sips, as he is their baseball Jesus.
Art Vandelay wrote:I think Clemens has most likely used PEDs on a regular basis. However, I don't care, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt (at least in terms of official punishment being handed down by MLB). It's one thing if there is a positive test, but what so-and-so says someone told him they overheard that one guy talking about doesn't matter to me.
I get what you're saying but this isn't necessarily 4th party information. Based on how specific McNamee's statement was, I tend to believe it. Add on the fact that his details about Pettitte seem to be right on. As for a positive test, didn't Bonds have 1 of those??
Art Vandelay wrote:I think Clemens has most likely used PEDs on a regular basis. However, I don't care, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt (at least in terms of official punishment being handed down by MLB). It's one thing if there is a positive test, but what so-and-so says someone told him they overheard that one guy talking about doesn't matter to me.
As for a positive test, didn't Bonds have 1 of those??
He did, but I'm not too sure what that has to do with anything. I don't believe Art has ever denied Barry took PEDs.
Art Vandelay wrote:I think Clemens has most likely used PEDs on a regular basis. However, I don't care, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt (at least in terms of official punishment being handed down by MLB). It's one thing if there is a positive test, but what so-and-so says someone told him they overheard that one guy talking about doesn't matter to me.
As for a positive test, didn't Bonds have 1 of those??
He did, but I'm not too sure what that has to do with anything. I don't believe Art has ever denied Barry took PEDs.
It mattered because he said:
It's one thing if there is a positive test, but what so-and-so says someone told him they overheard that one guy talking about doesn't matter to me.
This statement indicates to me that a positive test matters to him. He has defended Bonds to no end in the past so I am wondering why it appears that his positive tests might not matter while it does for Clemens.
To clarify: It doesn't matter to me personally either way. Bonds could face Clemens with both of them having steroid needles sticking out of their asses while they guzzle gatorade bottles full of HGH and shoot rhinoceros testosterone straight into their eyelids between pitches and all I'd care about would be the outcome of the matchup. When I say that it's different if there is a positive test, I mean punishment by the league is okay, but even then, only if it follows the punishments laid out in the CBA. Lacking a positive test, I don't think the league should take any action whatsoever.
My "defense" of Bonds has always been that he should be subject to the laws of the land and the rules and punishments of baseball as defined by the CBA, not made an example of.
Other than that, my only defense has been the same defense that I've made regarding every other accused steroid user: that they should all be able to use whatever they want.
Art Vandelay wrote:To clarify: It doesn't matter to me personally either way. Bonds could face Clemens with both of them having steroid needles sticking out of their asses while they guzzle gatorade bottles full of HGH and shoot rhinoceros testosterone straight into their eyelids between pitches and all I'd care about would be the outcome of the matchup. When I say that it's different if there is a positive test, I mean punishment by the league is okay, but even then, only if it follows the punishments laid out in the CBA. Lacking a positive test, I don't think the league should take any action whatsoever.
My "defense" of Bonds has always been that he should be subject to the laws of the land and the rules and punishments of baseball as defined by the CBA, not made an example of.
Other than that, my only defense has been the same defense that I've made regarding every other accused steroid user: that they should all be able to use whatever they want.
I would actually shell out hundreds to watch Bonds and Clemens face each other under those circumstances. Great idea for PPV.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." ~George Carlin
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by Yoda » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:54 pm 
