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Clemens named in Mitchell report

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Re: Clemens named in Mitchell report

Postby mweir145 » Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:03 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:Do you think his wife knew about this? I mean, the guy's already a loaded millionaire coming out of the last decade. He's already proven that he was a very good pitcher. But he gets greedy and wants more fame, so he takes drugs that could potentially destroy his health down the road.

I can't imagine my wife ever signing off on something like that.


The difference is that Clemens can kick his wife's ass.

Haha. :-b
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Re: Clemens named in Mitchell report

Postby noseeum » Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:30 pm

mweir145 wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:Do you think his wife knew about this? I mean, the guy's already a loaded millionaire coming out of the last decade. He's already proven that he was a very good pitcher. But he gets greedy and wants more fame, so he takes drugs that could potentially destroy his health down the road.

I can't imagine my wife ever signing off on something like that.


The difference is that Clemens can kick his wife's ass.

Haha. :-b


Yeah, no way your wife would ever let that happen. Now go get me a beer. ;-7

"Hey honey, I can net us another $100 million over the next 5 years if I stick a needle in my butt." Most wives would be like "give me that needle! Fill 'er up!"
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Re: Clemens named in Mitchell report

Postby Tavish » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:50 pm

Lofunzo wrote:I never read anything about greenies when I was 12 so I grew up thinking that the records had a sense of purity. Now that I know the basis for your thinking, I understand why you might not feel the same way.

You may have not known about PEDs at that time, but surely you had heard of pitchers doctoring balls (Joe Neikro and Gaylord Perry throughout the 70s), corked bats (Norm Cash in the 60s), and several of the other people who would break rules to get an advantage. For the most part people always used to just laugh those things off as "part of baseball".

I had a fairly major eye opening experience about MLB players even before I read Ball Four. I was about 7 or 8 and remember the Willie Wilson/Aikens cocaine bust that sent several Royals to jail. Willie swore by the use of cocaine, that it made him faster/stronger and when he returned from serving his time the Royals gave him a nice big contract. Reading Ball Four several years later just made me realize how widespread it was and how ingrained it was into baseball.

Even with all that I didn't think much about steroids being widespread, I guess much in the same sense I didn't think about steroids being widespread in the WWF when I watched Hogan battle Rowdy Piper. But then along came the Ultimate Warrior and you took a step back and thought, suuuuurrrre that's all natural. Even if seeing Canseco when the Bash Brothers were at their height wasn't enough to make you have second thoughts, when Caminiti came out in 2002 about the widespread use something should have clicked. But for the most part Ken was dismissed as a liar.

From the 2002 ESPN story that basically flared up and then went away:

'I've made a ton of mistakes,'' said Caminiti, a recovering alcoholic and former drug user whose 15-year career ended last season. Caminiti played for both the Houston Astros and the Texas Rangers. ''I don't think using steroids is one of them.

''It's no secret what's going on in baseball. At least half the guys are using steroids. They talk about it. They joke about it with each other.''

Arizona pitcher Curt Schilling said steroid use was rampant within the game.

Eighteen months ago, ESPN.com conducted an in-depth investigation into the growth of a black market for anabolic steroids, an investigation that led to Tijuana, Mexico -- not far from where Ken Caminiti played during his MVP season in '96. The following is an excerpt from that Dec. 2000 report:

Among the new groups of steroid users are players in Major League Baseball, which a decade ago was thought to be devoid of such drug use. Now, players seeking steroids commonly cross the border into Tijuana, 30 miles south of San Diego.

"I know some guys that go down there, or they'll send one guy down there with a list (of steroids) to pick up" for teammates, said Brian McRae, a former ESPN analyst who retired in 1999 after 10 years in the majors. "Sometimes people go in the winter and they load up for the whole season."

Anaheim Angels infielder Benji Gil, who is from Tijuana, told ESPN.com that some players acquire steroids during the winter when they are playing in the Mexican League.

"In the town where I play in Mexico (Culiacán), I know somebody that goes around to every team and says he sells" steroids, said Gil, who described the man as a local bodybuilder. "He mostly targets Americans."

Brad Andress, Colorado Rockies strength coach, said steroids are particularly a problem with West Coast teams because of the proximity to Mexico.

"I've been at the major league level for 11 years now, and those stories were here from day one," he said. "It's just getting to the point where the more these stories permeate the industry, the more guys explore the simplicity of going down and attaining it."

''I'm not sure how (it) snuck in so quickly, but it's become a prominent thing very quickly. It's widely known in the game,'' he told Sports Illustrated. ''When you add in steroids and strength training, you're seeing records not just being broken but completely shattered.''
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Re: Clemens named in Mitchell report

Postby Lofunzo » Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:59 pm

You may have not known about PEDs at that time, but surely you had heard of pitchers doctoring balls (Joe Neikro and Gaylord Perry throughout the 70s), corked bats (Norm Cash in the 60s), and several of the other people who would break rules to get an advantage. For the most part people always used to just laugh those things off as "part of baseball".


I had but I took them as more isolated incidents while it seems like PED/greenie use is more widespread.
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Re: Clemens named in Mitchell report

Postby Another Blown Save » Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:10 pm

Pettitte admits briefly using HGH during 2002
By BEN WALKER, AP Baseball Writer
December 15, 2007

New York Yankees starting pitcher Andy Pettitte, left, confers with pitching coach Mel Stottlemyre in the dugout during a baseball game against the Philadelphia Phillies after appearing in his first game since March 3 because of a strained left elbow in this March 25, 2002 file photo in Clearwater, Fla. Pettitte used human growth hormone to recover from an elbow injury in 2002, the New York Yankees pitcher said two days after he was cited in the Mitchell Report. "If what I did was an error in judgment on my part, I apologize," Pettitte said Saturday, Dec. 15, 2007 in a statement released by his agent. "I accept responsibility for those two days."

NEW YORK (AP) -- Andy Pettitte used human growth hormone to recover from an elbow injury in 2002, the New York Yankees pitcher admitted two days after he was cited in the Mitchell Report.

Pettitte said he tried HGH on two occasions, stressing he did it to heal faster and not enhance his performance. He emphasized he never used steroids.

"If what I did was an error in judgment on my part, I apologize," Pettitte said Saturday in a statement released by his agent. "I accept responsibility for those two days."

On Thursday, Pettitte was among 85 players named by former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell's investigation into steroids and performance-enhancing drugs. Pettitte had not commented publicly on the allegations.

Pettitte asked the trainer he shared with Roger Clemens, Brian McNamee, to help him with HGH while on the disabled list early in the season, the report said. McNamee recalled injecting Pettitte two to four times, Mitchell said.

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"In 2002 I was injured. I had heard that human growth hormone could promote faster healing for my elbow," Pettitte said in the statement released to The Associated Press by agent Randy Hendricks.

"I felt an obligation to get back to my team as soon as possible. For this reason, and only this reason, for two days I tried human growth hormone. Though it was not against baseball rules, I was not comfortable with what I was doing, so I stopped.

"This is it -- two days out of my life; two days out of my entire career, when I was injured and on the disabled list," he said. "I wasn't looking for an edge. I was looking to heal."

Pettitte was not linked to steroids in the report, and said he never had never used them.

"I have the utmost respect for baseball and have always tried to live my life in a way that would be honorable," he said. "If I have let down people that care about me, I am sorry, but I hope that you will listen to me carefully and understand that two days of perhaps bad judgment should not ruin a lifetime of hard work and dedication.

"I have tried to do things the right way my entire life, and, again, ask that you put those two days in the proper context. People that know me will know that what I say is true," he said.

The 35-year-old lefty is 201-113 lifetime. He started his major league career in 1995 and won four World Series championships with the Yankees. He pitched for his hometown Houston Astros from 2004-06 and helped them reach their first World Series.

Pettitte returned to the Yankees last season and went 15-9. This month, he put off retirement and agreed to a $16 million, one-year contract to play for the Yankees next season.

Mitchell devoted 1 1/2 pages to McNamee's testimony about Pettitte. Clemens was mentioned on nearly nine pages, with McNamee saying he injected the star pitcher.

Clemens was accused of using steroids and HGH and, through his lawyer, vehemently denied the accusations.

When Clemens joined the Yankees in 1999, he and Pettitte became fast friends and training partners. McNamee was part of their regimen -- Clemens had worked with him in Toronto before being traded to New York.

According to the Mitchell Report, Pettitte asked McNamee about using HGH after the 2001 season, and the trainer said he discouraged the pitcher from trying it.


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I'm surprised that he's coming out with this because
1. By the way the media is discrediting the report, you figured that if he kept his mouth shut, a lot of this would have gone away
2. By confirming McNamee's story, this further increases the likelihood of Clemens' use a HGH.
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Re: Clemens named in Mitchell report

Postby Lofunzo » Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:25 pm

2. By confirming McNamee's story, this further increases the likelihood of Clemens' use a HGH.


Agreed. Without doing so directly, Clemens is now firmly secured under the bus.
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Re: Clemens named in Mitchell report

Postby blankman » Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:33 pm

I think this effectively clears Pettitte. He doesn't want to be associated with cheating and I honestly don't have issue with what he did to get healthy for his team. By admitting to this, it should stop the irresponsible speculation by the media about him using steroids. It also serves to put an end to the publicity about him, something Andy obviously has never wanted.
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Re: Clemens named in Mitchell report

Postby Yoda » Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:46 pm

It does confirm Clemens as being a user but at the same time, Pettitte is doing some serious damage control by confirming the use of HGH while he was injured. I would think this would put a strain on their friendship going forward but Pettitte is trying to protect his legacy so it's a tough spot to be in and I can't blame him.
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Re: Clemens named in Mitchell report

Postby kentx12 » Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:54 pm

blankman wrote: By admitting to this, it should stop the irresponsible speculation by the media about him using steroids. It also serves to put an end to the publicity about him, something Andy obviously has never wanted.



Dont you believe that if other players came clean about there steroid abuse that the media would fall away from themmore quickly? Giambi came clean and shortly his name wasnt mentioned. That dosent make it any more right what the players did but it seems like it is forgotten alot faster.
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Re: Clemens named in Mitchell report

Postby kemper5 » Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:50 pm

Yeah, to me Pettitte owning up like a MAN will get his supposed "Good Friend" Rog to own up to and get a set of nads and will own up and let everyone know he juiced though a couple CY's and be done with it. Come on Rog, own up to injecting roids and retire..A NON HOF'ER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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