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The Mitchell Investigation

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Re: The Mitchell Investigation

Postby Yoda » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:19 am

Lofunzo wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:In a court of law, you expect a judge and jury to look at everything fairly. The court of public opinion doesn't work that way. You can go on and on about how unfair that is but we really need to look in the mirror. Do we really handle exact situations the same?? Do we really look at exact situations regarding different people/players the same each and every time?? We need to look in the mirror. Each and every 1 of us. I would expect that there have been times that those of us preaching about the fact that these players all need to be treated the same have, at some time, been hypocrites of this as well.


Does anyone care to respond to this??


I can agree with that. I used to be on the other side but over the years but all the irrational hatred from people on Bonds made me switch over. I still can't stand the guy but I do feel bad that most people won't cut him any slack.
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Re: The Mitchell Investigation

Postby Lofunzo » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:08 am

Yoda wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:In a court of law, you expect a judge and jury to look at everything fairly. The court of public opinion doesn't work that way. You can go on and on about how unfair that is but we really need to look in the mirror. Do we really handle exact situations the same?? Do we really look at exact situations regarding different people/players the same each and every time?? We need to look in the mirror. Each and every 1 of us. I would expect that there have been times that those of us preaching about the fact that these players all need to be treated the same have, at some time, been hypocrites of this as well.


Does anyone care to respond to this??


I can agree with that. I used to be on the other side but over the years but all the irrational hatred from people on Bonds made me switch over. I still can't stand the guy but I do feel bad that most people won't cut him any slack.


Fair enough. As someone that has certainly been on the "treat all of them fairly" side of the fence, have you treated them all fairly?? Do you treat all of the same scenarios the same in every walk of life??
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Re: The Mitchell Investigation

Postby Yoda » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:59 am

Lofunzo wrote:Fair enough. As someone that has certainly been on the "treat all of them fairly" side of the fence, have you treated them all fairly?? Do you treat all of the same scenarios the same in every walk of life??


The way I see it, it's like when someone fails a drug test in anything else. Despite what the reasons are and how long someone has taken them, if they fail the test then they fail. No one player is more guilty because he broke some records and happens to be more popular.

Let me ask you a question. Since those who are in charge of the game did not have proper testing procedures to ensure the game was clean, I hold those people just as accountable since they should know better. Don't you? Every other sport has had drug use policy in force while MLB did not. Don't you see how that can perpetuate drug use by athletes who are super competitive and always looking for an edge?
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Re: The Mitchell Investigation

Postby acapulco » Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:56 am

Associated Press

Updated: December 18, 2007, 9:53 PM ET

NEW YORK -- Pete Rose thinks players who use steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs are "making a mockery" of baseball.


I don't know about the rest of you. But it's comforting to me that Pete Rose and Jose Canseco are looking out for the integrity of the game.
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Re: The Mitchell Investigation

Postby KCollins1304 » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:03 pm

Yoda wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:Fair enough. As someone that has certainly been on the "treat all of them fairly" side of the fence, have you treated them all fairly?? Do you treat all of the same scenarios the same in every walk of life??


The way I see it, it's like when someone fails a drug test in anything else. Despite what the reasons are and how long someone has taken them, if they fail the test then they fail. No one player is more guilty because he broke some records and happens to be more popular.


They would be treated equally by whoever is administering the drug test(ie the law or an employer). But in the eyes of the public, would you not see a difference(assuming you could know the difference) between someone who tried smoking pot one time and a habitual drug user that is addicted to pot?
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Re: The Mitchell Investigation

Postby Yoda » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:08 pm

KCollins1304 wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:Fair enough. As someone that has certainly been on the "treat all of them fairly" side of the fence, have you treated them all fairly?? Do you treat all of the same scenarios the same in every walk of life??


The way I see it, it's like when someone fails a drug test in anything else. Despite what the reasons are and how long someone has taken them, if they fail the test then they fail. No one player is more guilty because he broke some records and happens to be more popular.


They would be treated equally by whoever is administering the drug test(ie the law or an employer). But in the eyes of the public, would you not see a difference(assuming you could know the difference) between someone who tried smoking pot one time and a habitual drug user that is addicted to pot?


We don't know for sure who really tried it once or did it for years. That is the problem.
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Re: The Mitchell Investigation

Postby BronXBombers51 » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:09 pm

KCollins1304 wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:Fair enough. As someone that has certainly been on the "treat all of them fairly" side of the fence, have you treated them all fairly?? Do you treat all of the same scenarios the same in every walk of life??


The way I see it, it's like when someone fails a drug test in anything else. Despite what the reasons are and how long someone has taken them, if they fail the test then they fail. No one player is more guilty because he broke some records and happens to be more popular.


They would be treated equally by whoever is administering the drug test(ie the law or an employer). But in the eyes of the public, would you not see a difference(assuming you could know the difference) between someone who tried smoking pot one time and a habitual drug user that is addicted to pot?


Even if you wanted to believe in this...

...Bonds isn't the only person who was a habitual PED user. This isn't a matter of a person who tried pot once and a habitual user. This is treating a habitual user much more harshly and unfairly than another habitual users.

The game is FULL of habitual users. Do we all honestly believe into these "I tried HGH once when I was rehabbing" statements? Come on. Maybe it's true, but I'd say there's better than a 50-50 chance that most of them are BS-ing. As someone stated earlier...there was a culture of drug use in baseball. Heavy usage doesn't start and end with Bonds. Is he a part of it? Certainly. But that's all he is. He's a part. This has been going on since the mid-80s, if not earlier. Bonds isn't even accused of using until roughly 1999-2000.

People just need to stop acting like this is a Bonds issue. It's a baseball issue. Bonds plays a small role in the overall scheme of things.
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Re: The Mitchell Investigation

Postby KCollins1304 » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:06 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:Even if you wanted to believe in this...

...Bonds isn't the only person who was a habitual PED user. This isn't a matter of a person who tried pot once and a habitual user. This is treating a habitual user much more harshly and unfairly than another habitual users.

The game is FULL of habitual users. Do we all honestly believe into these "I tried HGH once when I was rehabbing" statements? Come on. Maybe it's true, but I'd say there's better than a 50-50 chance that most of them are BS-ing. As someone stated earlier...there was a culture of drug use in baseball. Heavy usage doesn't start and end with Bonds. Is he a part of it? Certainly. But that's all he is. He's a part. This has been going on since the mid-80s, if not earlier. Bonds isn't even accused of using until roughly 1999-2000.

People just need to stop acting like this is a Bonds issue. It's a baseball issue. Bonds plays a small role in the overall scheme of things.


I know that there are a lot of other habitual users, but there is nothing in comparison to what stacks up against Bonds in terms of evidence. If there was as much information about everyone else as there was about Bonds, there would be a lot more focus towards other people. We have just seen a substantial amount of information about Clemens when the Mitchell report came out, and I have hardly heard Bonds mentioned. I think most of your problem is with the media, where their job is to sell papers. If they wrote articles about how they thought Alex Sanchez and Matt Herges and other people should were bad steroid users, would you even read the article? Most people don't even know who they are. They right articles about Bonds and Clemens because they are the most interesting and sell the most papers. It is the nature of how media works. This isn't just how the media treats Bonds unfairly, it is how the media always treats everything. For instance, Britney Spears probably isn't the only celebrity that doesn't wear underwear or is a bad mother, but there are always pictures of her everywhere with her child in her lap while she's driving or stories about how she tried to get her toddler porcelain teeth or how she doesn't hardly ever wear underwear. All of these things are written about her and all the pictures are taken because she is popular and a polarizing figure that causes people to have opinions and sells papers. I don't think Bonds records should be erased or asterisked, for the record and I do think it is stupid and unfair that Selig is probably going to go after him more so than other people.

I guess my overall point is that the media is always unfair. This isn't the media specifically out to get Bonds, he is just the most relevant. Plenty of celebrities get this same bias against them, and it is not isolated to Bonds. The overall tone of people's arguments for Bonds makes it sound like everyone in the world is treated fairly by the media except for Bonds, and that is simply not the case.
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Re: The Mitchell Investigation

Postby Lofunzo » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:50 pm

Yoda wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:Fair enough. As someone that has certainly been on the "treat all of them fairly" side of the fence, have you treated them all fairly?? Do you treat all of the same scenarios the same in every walk of life??


The way I see it, it's like when someone fails a drug test in anything else. Despite what the reasons are and how long someone has taken them, if they fail the test then they fail. No one player is more guilty because he broke some records and happens to be more popular.

Let me ask you a question. Since those who are in charge of the game did not have proper testing procedures to ensure the game was clean, I hold those people just as accountable since they should know better. Don't you? Every other sport has had drug use policy in force while MLB did not. Don't you see how that can perpetuate drug use by athletes who are super competitive and always looking for an edge?


While I definitely lay a lot of blame at the feet of MLB, I cannot make them more guilty than the adults that went out of their way to take illegal drugs. They all had their contacts that got them this stuff. None had a legit presciption so they knew what they were doing and that it was wrong.
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Re: The Mitchell Investigation

Postby Yoda » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:01 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:Fair enough. As someone that has certainly been on the "treat all of them fairly" side of the fence, have you treated them all fairly?? Do you treat all of the same scenarios the same in every walk of life??


The way I see it, it's like when someone fails a drug test in anything else. Despite what the reasons are and how long someone has taken them, if they fail the test then they fail. No one player is more guilty because he broke some records and happens to be more popular.

Let me ask you a question. Since those who are in charge of the game did not have proper testing procedures to ensure the game was clean, I hold those people just as accountable since they should know better. Don't you? Every other sport has had drug use policy in force while MLB did not. Don't you see how that can perpetuate drug use by athletes who are super competitive and always looking for an edge?


While I definitely lay a lot of blame at the feet of MLB, I cannot make them more guilty than the adults that went out of their way to take illegal drugs. They all had their contacts that got them this stuff. None had a legit presciption so they knew what they were doing and that it was wrong.


Agreed for the most part since every person has the right to make a choice.

Most sports, both pro and am, enforce strong drug policies and athletes still use illegal performance enhancing drugs to gain an advantage. And here you have a top professional sport in the world with no drug policies at all. What do you expect will happen? MLB created these monsters.
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