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CRISP/ ELLSBURY

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CRISP/ ELLSBURY

Postby talk show host » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:17 am

COCO CRISP /JACOBY ELLSBURY

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - Coco Crisp [stats] has no intention of entering a scenario where he has to compete for the starting center field job.

That was the message Crisp’s agent, Steve Comte, relayed yesterday, coming just minutes after the Red Sox [team stats] left the Opryland Hotel and Resort without having cleared up the outfielder’s uncertain status on the team.

“Covelli understands the situation,” Comte said referring to his client by his real first name, “but being in a situation where he would be looking over his shoulder at (Jacoby) Ellsbury would be unacceptable.

“He’s a proven commodity,” Comte said. “Ellsbury filled in and did a great job, and Covelli didn’t complain. There was certainly some disappointment, but, that being said, he took the high road. But does he feel he belongs in the outfield as a backup? No way.

“Not taking anything away from Ellsbury, but do I think he’s a better player than Covelli? Absolutely not.” Boston Herald LENNY: Nothing Like a Little Team Spirit
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Re: CRISP/ ELLSBURY

Postby bigken117 » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:39 am

Crisp need not worry. I think both will be starting in CF one place or another in 2008.
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Re: CRISP/ ELLSBURY

Postby thedude » Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:52 am

Either Crisp or Ellsbury will be traded before Spring training. IMO, the most likely scenario for Crisp (who lead all OF in defensive winshares), is that he is the one traded.
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Re: CRISP/ ELLSBURY

Postby RedSoxNation04 » Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:10 pm

talk show host wrote:COCO CRISP /JACOBY ELLSBURY

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - Coco Crisp [stats] has no intention of entering a scenario where he has to compete for the starting center field job.

That was the message Crisp’s agent, Steve Comte, relayed yesterday, coming just minutes after the Red Sox [team stats] left the Opryland Hotel and Resort without having cleared up the outfielder’s uncertain status on the team.

“Covelli understands the situation,” Comte said referring to his client by his real first name, “but being in a situation where he would be looking over his shoulder at (Jacoby) Ellsbury would be unacceptable.

“He’s a proven commodity,” Comte said. “Ellsbury filled in and did a great job, and Covelli didn’t complain. There was certainly some disappointment, but, that being said, he took the high road. But does he feel he belongs in the outfield as a backup? No way.

“Not taking anything away from Ellsbury, but do I think he’s a better player than Covelli? Absolutely not.” Boston Herald LENNY: Nothing Like a Little Team Spirit
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If Coco hadn't forgotten how to hit for most of the season he wouldn't have to be looking over his shoulder. And how is competition unacceptable? What a ridiculous quote that is from Comte...Coco plays elsewhere in '08 unless Ellsbury goes to Minnesota in a Johan deal which, personally I hope does not happen. Ellsbury should be our CF in '08.
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Re: CRISP/ ELLSBURY

Postby Omaha Red Sox » Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:47 pm

Comte's client is a great defensive centerfielder. Even better than Ellsbury. But, like RSN said, he forgot how to hit. He batted .268 on the season, but much worse down the stretch. I think he lost his job as the starting CF in Boston and will likely be traded by spring training. Ellsbury is the leadoff hitter that the Red Sox need. He doesn't walk as much as you'd like, but you can't argue against an above .300 average with those guys behind him.
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Re: CRISP/ ELLSBURY

Postby acsguitar » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:37 pm

Crisp sucks. Send him to the Marlins
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Re: CRISP/ ELLSBURY

Postby thedude » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:03 pm

acsguitar wrote:Crisp sucks. Send him to the Marlins



He did lead all MLB Outfielders in defensive win shares...

He is also too expensive for the Marlins (Marlins can't afford to pay someone $4 Million)
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Re: CRISP/ ELLSBURY

Postby RedSoxNation04 » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:49 am

thedude wrote:
acsguitar wrote:Crisp sucks. Send him to the Marlins



He did lead all MLB Outfielders in defensive win shares...

He is also too expensive for the Marlins (Marlins can't afford to pay someone $4 Million)

No one in Boston doubts his defense...should have been a gold glove winner this year. What everyone is tired of are the weak ground outs to 2nd base and the pop outs to shallow center.
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Re: CRISP/ ELLSBURY

Postby Omaha Red Sox » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:06 am

RedSoxNation04 wrote:
thedude wrote:
acsguitar wrote:Crisp sucks. Send him to the Marlins



He did lead all MLB Outfielders in defensive win shares...

He is also too expensive for the Marlins (Marlins can't afford to pay someone $4 Million)

No one in Boston doubts his defense...should have been a gold glove winner this year. What everyone is tired of are the weak ground outs to 2nd base and the pop outs to shallow center.


I love him for his defense. I'd love to keep him on for his defense. I loved Alex Gonzalez for his defense too. Especially after watching Lugo last year :-P . But I understand with the money you pay these guys, you have to have some offensive production. And Tacoby Bellsbury will deliver in that department.
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Re: CRISP/ ELLSBURY

Postby Steve-o » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:20 am

RedSoxNation04 wrote:No one in Boston doubts his defense...should have been a gold glove winner this year. What everyone is tired of are the weak ground outs to 2nd base and the pop outs to shallow center.


What makes you think Jacoby is going to be any different than Crisp?

Player A
.298/.360/.380 in 363 ABs as a 23 yo in AAA
.308/.387/.434 in 198 ABs as a 22 yo in AA

Player B
.360/.434/.511 in 225 ABs as a 23 yo in AAA
.301/.365/.428 in 355 ABs as a 22 yo in AA

Quick, which one is Jacoby and which one is Crisp? You want to say you like Jacoby because he's cheaper or because he came through your farm system, that's fine with me. However, if you are arguing that Jacoby a better hitter than Crisp (based on his 116 ABs in MLB), then I want to argue that point. To me, they are essentially the same guys. Maybe you get a little downgrade in defense when you move to Ellsbury and Ellsbury is certainly more of an unknown quantity.

Random smart person wrote:On a random tangent, I don't understand all the fantasy love for Jacoby. I just don't think he is that good. I don''t know, maybe if your league counts defensive metrics like FRAA or HBT's zone rating as a cat. Here's some more info:

John Sickels on 3/15/07 wrote:Physicality, Health, and Tools
Ellsbury: Ellsbury is a 6-1, 185 pound lefthanded hitter and thrower, born September 11, 1983. An outstanding athlete, he is an excellent defensive outfielder, although his arm is below average in strength. His speed plays well on the bases. He's shown sound contact hitting ability and gap power as a pro, along with very good strike zone judgment. His home run power is just average right now, but should improve at least slightly as he gets older. He's had no major health problems worth noting.

Performance and Polish
Ellsbury: Ellsbury's career mark is .306/.391/.427 with 64 steals in 146 games, including .308/.387/.434 last year in half a season of Double-A. His BB/K/AB ratio is excellent at 73/73/581, showing strong plate discipline. He's quite polished in most phases of the game, needing only additional power development. His MLE OPS last year was about .760 with about 30 steals and strong defense.

Projection
Ellsbury: Although some people compare him to Johnny Damon, I don't think Ellsbury will have that kind of home run power. I expect he'll develop into a .280-.300 hitter with a high on base percentage, plenty of speed, lots of doubles and triples, 10-15 homers, and strong glovework. PECOTA upside VORP is 78.6.
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