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AGREE WITH DOMBROWSKI??

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Re: AGREE WITH DOMBROWSKI??

Postby 05worldserieschamps » Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:41 pm

I agree for the most part with the philosophy, just not the trade. Im one of the biggest Cabrera fans you will find, I think he is a young stud and can flat out hit. He was certainly worth a Cameron Maybin-like prospect. But I DONT agree with Miller-Willis. He was 10-15 last year with a 5.17 era. Andrew Miller could probably match that in 2008. I think the Tigers should have given up Maybin, along with 2-3 other guys they gave in the deal for Cabrera, but Willis should have been left out.
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Re: AGREE WITH DOMBROWSKI??

Postby thedude » Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:15 pm

05worldserieschamps wrote:I agree for the most part with the philosophy, just not the trade. Im one of the biggest Cabrera fans you will find, I think he is a young stud and can flat out hit. He was certainly worth a Cameron Maybin-like prospect. But I DONT agree with Miller-Willis. He was 10-15 last year with a 5.17 era. Andrew Miller could probably match that in 2008. I think the Tigers should have given up Maybin, along with 2-3 other guys they gave in the deal for Cabrera, but Willis should have been left out.


Well the thing is, Maybin by himself wouldn't fetch Cabrera, so they had to add Miller in. Willis is kind of a throw-in.
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Re: AGREE WITH DOMBROWSKI??

Postby 05worldserieschamps » Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:21 pm

You're right, Maybin by himself wouldn't have. But I would say Maybin along with a few other lowly prospects would have. Cabrera has been on the block forever, just like Willis. The Marlins were ready to trade him, I think Maybin+other prospects would have gotten him.
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Re: AGREE WITH DOMBROWSKI??

Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:08 pm

05worldserieschamps wrote:I agree for the most part with the philosophy, just not the trade. Im one of the biggest Cabrera fans you will find, I think he is a young stud and can flat out hit. He was certainly worth a Cameron Maybin-like prospect. But I DONT agree with Miller-Willis. He was 10-15 last year with a 5.17 era. Andrew Miller could probably match that in 2008. I think the Tigers should have given up Maybin, along with 2-3 other guys they gave in the deal for Cabrera, but Willis should have been left out.



I completely disagree. First of all, Miller isnt ready yet. He is still a one pitch pitcher, and while it is a very good pitch, he will need to develop and control his secondary pitches to be a great pitcher. On top of that many scouts thought that because of his mechanics, he was considered a high injury risk. If the Marlins can hold him back another year or so to break down his mechanics and help him develop his secondary pitches without diluting his fastball, then yeah, he could be great - but do you see that happening? As it is now I'm pretty sure they plan on running him out as is this yr. If so I predict he will definitely have some good games, but be extremely inconsistant and get lit up as well. I also would be very concerned with future arm troubles.

On the other hand I am hopeful that a number of things will allow Willis to have a nice bounceback year: playing for something in front of sold out crowds regularly, not having to be relied on to be the staff ace, reuniting with a great game caller in Pudge, having an offense and defense that is much better to support him, playing in the AL instead of the NL where his funky delivery may become useful again, and possibly having a healthier season as well. You have to remember, at this point Willis is going to be the Tigers' 4th or 5th starter.

Many people are also extremely high on Maybin, but as we saw last yr with his cup of coffee, he isnt close to being ready to play in the bigs. His swing is way too long and he looked lost in the outfield. If the Marlins think they are going to play him every day in 2008, they could stunt his growth as well.
Last edited by Cornbread Maxwell on Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AGREE WITH DOMBROWSKI??

Postby 05worldserieschamps » Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:50 pm

It just seems to me like a pretty huge risk. After trading Jurrjens for Renteria, they have completely depleted their farm system. Having Andrew Miller still gives plenty of look to the future. And I still think Andrew Miller can have as good of 2008 as Willis.

PS- Dont see Willis having a "breakout year" though. Moving from one of the weakest divisions in all of baseball to the strongest shouldnt help his ERA.
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Re: AGREE WITH DOMBROWSKI??

Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:31 pm

05worldserieschamps wrote:It just seems to me like a pretty huge risk. After trading Jurrjens for Renteria, they have completely depleted their farm system. Having Andrew Miller still gives plenty of look to the future. And I still think Andrew Miller can have as good of 2008 as Willis.

PS- Dont see Willis having a "breakout year" though. Moving from one of the weakest divisions in all of baseball to the strongest shouldnt help his ERA.


We'll see. I am pretty positive Miller wont have nearly as good a yr as Willis in 2008. Miller will probably have a better k/9, but thats about it. Besides, if he does get a fulltime gig this yr it will almost certainly stunt his growth and lead to future arm problems. He simply is not ready yet and his violent movement spells trouble.

As for the Tiger's farm system - they still have Porcello. Also, considering the huge advances to scouting and drafting since DD took over, I have a lot of faith that management can rebuild the farm within a few years. Remember - Detroit is one of only a handful of clubs that have thumbed their nose at the commisioners slotting guidlines for the draft. They will continue to draft the best available talent as long as other clubs allow them to. The fact that they got Porcello with the 27th overall pick after he was deemed a top 5 guy by virtually every scout is just a sign of things to come.
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Re: AGREE WITH DOMBROWSKI??

Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:46 pm

05worldserieschamps wrote:PS- Dont see Willis having a "breakout year" though. Moving from one of the weakest divisions in all of baseball to the strongest shouldnt help his ERA.


The Phillies, Mets, and Braves all finished in the top 10 for runs, BA, and OBP last yr.
On the other hand, the only team Willis has to face in the AL Central that can say the same is the Indians. MIN, KC, and CHW all finished in the bottom 6 for runs and the bottom third in MLB for OBP.

Id say the NL East is a much tougher division to pitch in than the AL Central as long as you are a Tiger or Indian. The Twinkies, Royals, and White Sox dont really strike much fear into anyone.
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Re: AGREE WITH DOMBROWSKI??

Postby thedude » Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:34 am

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:
05worldserieschamps wrote:PS- Dont see Willis having a "breakout year" though. Moving from one of the weakest divisions in all of baseball to the strongest shouldnt help his ERA.


The Phillies, Mets, and Braves all finished in the top 10 for runs, BA, and OBP last yr.
On the other hand, the only team Willis has to face in the AL Central that can say the same is the Indians. MIN, KC, and CHW all finished in the bottom 6 for runs and the bottom third in MLB for OBP.

Id say the NL East is a much tougher division to pitch in than the AL Central as long as you are a Tiger or Indian. The Twinkies, Royals, and White Sox dont really strike much fear into anyone.



The DH makes a large difference. The NL weaker league than the AL, and pitchers generally see an increase in ERA when moving to the Jr. Circuit. He is better off than he would be in AL East, but he won't be helped by moving to the AL.
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Re: AGREE WITH DOMBROWSKI??

Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:18 am

thedude wrote:The DH makes a large difference. The NL weaker league than the AL, and pitchers generally see an increase in ERA when moving to the Jr. Circuit. He is better off than he would be in AL East, but he won't be helped by moving to the AL.



Of course the AL generally is tougher to pitch in than the NL because of the DH, you wont get an argument about that from me. All I was saying was that the NL East was clearly the tougher division to pitch in last yr than the AL Central - strictly by the numbers alone. In general the NL East teams got on base more and produced more runs. If the DH makes THAT large of a difference, wouldnt we see it in things like BA, OBP, and Runs?

Dont get me wrong - moving to the AL can be generally looked at as a negative, but what Im saying is that it shouldnt be considered one of the largest factors in predicting what kind of yr he is going to have.
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Re: AGREE WITH DOMBROWSKI??

Postby ayebatter » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:36 am

Regardless of Dontrells worth to Detroit, I believe the only reason this deal happened so quick, stunning the rest of the trade partners in MLB, was the inclusion of Willis in the deal. Face it Miller vs Dontell didn't come into the picture, Detroit taking Dontrell did.
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