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Pettitte Returns for 2008!!

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Re: Pettitte Returns for 2008!!

Postby BronXBombers51 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:50 pm

Madison wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
Madison wrote:Depends on your definition of "Pettitte's level", which is of course, all depends on the person looking at him.


An experienced lefty who will likely post an ERA around 4.00 and win 15-17 games if healthy. He also brings New York and postseason experience to the table.


Change the ERA to 4.20-4.40 or so, toss win totals in the trash as anyone wins games with the Yankee's offense, and all you've got left is an average pitcher with postseason experience. While the experience is beneficial and him being a lefty is nice, I still don't see this signing as that big of a deal.


Why are in inflating the ERA by 20-40 points? Pettitte has had an ERA over 4.05 once in the last seven years, and that was in Houston, not New York. He's also a great second-half pitcher.

Is this a huge deal? No, but it's a bigger deal than you're making it, I think. You didn't answer my original question, though....who are you going to get instead of Pettitte? Where's the better move to be made?
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Re: Pettitte Returns for 2008!!

Postby Madison » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:16 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:Why are in inflating the ERA by 20-40 points? Pettitte has had an ERA over 4.05 once in the last seven years, and that was in Houston, not New York. He's also a great second-half pitcher.

Is this a huge deal? No, but it's a bigger deal than you're making it, I think. You didn't answer my original question, though....who are you going to get instead of Pettitte? Where's the better move to be made?


Pettitte's career ERA with the Yankees is 4.49 and that's for over 2000 innings. I was being nice with the 4.20 mark.

Second half is irrelevant, we've been talking yearly totals. So if you want to play up his second halves, then you also have to murder him for the nasty first halves because his overall numbers are nothing special.

Maybe it is a bigger deal than I'm making it out to be. I just don't see anything special here. I didn't answer your question because in my eyes, a third of the pitchers in baseball would be an equal pickup. You will disagree with that because you believe the Pettitte signing to be a much bigger deal than I do, so there was no point in answering it.
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Re: Pettitte Returns for 2008!!

Postby KCollins1304 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:19 pm

Madison wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:Why are in inflating the ERA by 20-40 points? Pettitte has had an ERA over 4.05 once in the last seven years, and that was in Houston, not New York. He's also a great second-half pitcher.

Is this a huge deal? No, but it's a bigger deal than you're making it, I think. You didn't answer my original question, though....who are you going to get instead of Pettitte? Where's the better move to be made?


Pettitte's career ERA with the Yankees is 4.49 and that's for over 2000 innings. I was being nice with the 4.20 mark.

Second half is irrelevant, we've been talking yearly totals. So if you want to play up his second halves, then you also have to murder him for the nasty first halves because his overall numbers are nothing special.

Maybe it is a bigger deal than I'm making it out to be. I just don't see anything special here. I didn't answer your question because in my eyes, a third of the pitchers in baseball would be an equal pickup. You will disagree with that because you believe the Pettitte signing to be a much bigger deal than I do, so there was no point in answering it.


A third of the pitchers in baseball aren't available for 1 year deals either.
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Re: Pettitte Returns for 2008!!

Postby BronXBombers51 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:24 pm

Madison wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:Why are in inflating the ERA by 20-40 points? Pettitte has had an ERA over 4.05 once in the last seven years, and that was in Houston, not New York. He's also a great second-half pitcher.

Is this a huge deal? No, but it's a bigger deal than you're making it, I think. You didn't answer my original question, though....who are you going to get instead of Pettitte? Where's the better move to be made?


Pettitte's career ERA with the Yankees is 4.49 and that's for over 2000 innings. I was being nice with the 4.20 mark.

Second half is irrelevant, we've been talking yearly totals. So if you want to play up his second halves, then you also have to murder him for the nasty first halves because his overall numbers are nothing special.

Maybe it is a bigger deal than I'm making it out to be. I just don't see anything special here. I didn't answer your question because in my eyes, a third of the pitchers in baseball would be an equal pickup. You will disagree with that because you believe the Pettitte signing to be a much bigger deal than I do, so there was no point in answering it.


By my calculation, Pettitte has a 4.39 career ERA with the Yankees, not 4.49. Maybe I calculated incorrectly. It doesn't really matter though.

Despite his 4.4 ERA as a Yankee, he hasn't posted anything close to that in over 7 years. In his last 4 seasons as a Yankee he's posted ERAs of 3.99, 3.27, 4.02 and 4.05 (last year).

His more recent history with the Yankees suggest that he'll post an ERA much closer to 4.00 than 4.40.

How many of the "third of pitchers in baseball" have Pettitte's experience and can be had for a 1-year contract and no loss in terms of trade value?
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Re: Pettitte Returns for 2008!!

Postby Madison » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:55 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:How many of the "third of pitchers in baseball" have Pettitte's experience and can be had for a 1-year contract and no loss in terms of trade value?


As I said before, you think this is a better deal than I do. I'm also not saying this is a bad deal or anything like that, simply that I don't believe it's nearly the big deal that some other people believe it to be. I know Pettitte is a hometown favorite for Yankee fans, and that's cool and normal, but I don't see him as some huge upgrade, a deciding factor, or anything all that important really. Certainly not worth $16 million though, so when you mention "no loss" that's not quite accurate. I know money isn't any big deal for George as he's a smart businessman and built quite an empire (truely, I have nothing but respect for him on the business front - if more teams would follow the path, there'd be less whining about the difference in teams' salaries, but I digress). Anyway, that's simply too much money in my opinion, but as I stated many times, I just don't think Pettitte is anything special. I know some other people do, and that's cool as we're all allowed to think what we want, but if I were a Yankee fan, I'd be shrugging my shoulders and waiting on news about Johan. This signing wouldn't even make me blink an eye.
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Re: Pettitte Returns for 2008!!

Postby BronXBombers51 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:00 pm

Madison wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:How many of the "third of pitchers in baseball" have Pettitte's experience and can be had for a 1-year contract and no loss in terms of trade value?


As I said before, you think this is a better deal than I do. I'm also not saying this is a bad deal or anything like that, simply that I don't believe it's nearly the big deal that some other people believe it to be. I know Pettitte is a hometown favorite for Yankee fans, and that's cool and normal, but I don't see him as some huge upgrade, a deciding factor, or anything all that important really. Certainly not worth $16 million though, so when you mention "no loss" that's not quite accurate. I know money isn't any big deal for George as he's a smart businessman and built quite an empire (truely, I have nothing but respect for him on the business front - if more teams would follow the path, there'd be less whining about the difference in teams' salaries, but I digress). Anyway, that's simply too much money in my opinion, but as I stated many times, I just don't think Pettitte is anything special. I know some other people do, and that's cool as we're all allowed to think what we want, but if I were a Yankee fan, I'd be shrugging my shoulders and waiting on news about Johan. This signing wouldn't even make me blink an eye.


If your other option in the rotation were Kei Igawa, you'd blink an eye.

$16 million is obviously much more than Pettitte deserves, but it's not going to prevent the Yankees from signing anyone else in 2008 that will help them win. If they get Santana, they will pay him his $20+. Pettitte getting $16 isn't going to affect that. Maybe if it were a 3 year deal at $16, but it's not. It's only one.

I'm not saying it's a great signing. I'm saying that Pettitte was probably the most reliable starter on the team last year and him coming back to the team is good news.
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Re: Pettitte Returns for 2008!!

Postby noseeum » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:01 pm

How are you guys calculating his ERA? By my view, he's pitched 2005 2/3 regular season innings for the Yankees. He's given up 882 earned runs. I get a 3.96.
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Re: Pettitte Returns for 2008!!

Postby Yoda » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:04 pm

This is a good deal for the Yanks. Sure, they overpaid him like everyone else they do in NY but still, he is a dependent pitcher in a high stress environment. Hopefully he stays healthy.
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Re: Pettitte Returns for 2008!!

Postby BronXBombers51 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:06 pm

noseeum wrote:How are you guys calculating his ERA? By my view, he's pitched 2005 2/3 regular season innings for the Yankees. He's given up 882 earned runs. I get a 3.96.


Lmao, you're right.

For some reason I was doing ER/IP. That's not ERA. His ERA as a Yankee is under 4. :-° :-b :-o
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Re: Pettitte Returns for 2008!!

Postby Madison » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:06 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:If your other option in the rotation were Kei Igawa, you'd blink an eye.


Good point. :-D ;-D
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