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Dan Haren

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Dan Haren

Postby The Cow » Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:15 am

First let me say it is nice to make a post NOT about the Sox or Yanks! Oh i just did, anyways... I hear a lot of people saying that they would rather give up less to get Haren than pay more to get Santana. I think we can all agree that Johan is the better pitcher. I think we can all agree that Haren is a fine pitcher in his own right. So why not go after Haren? Well Billy Beane is no dummy, he will pry some good prospects in return. But the real reason to NOT go after Haren is that Beane knows when to fold em or deal em. Look at some of these "aces" that Beane has traded or let walk. Tim Hudson, hardly the pitcher he was in Oakland. Mark Mulder, well he was a huge bust and finally Barry Zito, he looks to be a slightly above average pitcher at best. I think it is safe to say that Beane has more info on Haren than anyone on this board. So the fact that he is offering up a pitcher that is signed to a reasonable contract for the next 3 years is telling. Beane realizes that Haren's value will never be higher than it is now, so it is time to deal him. Unless of course his reason for wanting to deal Haren are because he has reason to believe that Haren is in line for an injury. To me Haren looks to good to be true. Haren appears to be fools gold. Why pay less for fools gold in terms of prospects. When you can get real gold, Santana, for a little more. This of course applies to the teams with big pockets. Teams with less revenue have 150 million reason why not to chase Santana.

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Re: Dan Haren

Postby thedude » Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:35 am

I think your suspicions are well founded. I would always be very cautious in dealing with certain GMs (Billy Beane and John Schuerholz for example) who give away guys at the peak of their value and do not get screwed often.
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Re: Dan Haren

Postby ayebatter » Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:37 am

Haren has been a horse the last 3 yrs, 200+ innings, doesn't miss a start, gets his share of decisions, has a good K rate, 1.2 whip, although he's not my roommate I don't see a injury in his future. I believe the reason Beane has put him on the block is his very low salary. I figure Beane is looking for 'Santana like' trade value because Haren is tied up for the next 3 yrs at $15 million (cheap!!!!!). That alone should give Beane all the leverage he needs to pry 3 good player/prospects out of any suitors.
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Re: Dan Haren

Postby TheA'sFatLeadoffMan » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:12 am

Beane can capitalize from whatever ground is established by the Twins dishing Johan, it will set a high value for high level pitchers, and he's got one with 3 years cost control. He did dump Zito, Mulder, and Hudson, all within a year of contraction expiration though right? I mean it's one thing to trade high level pitchers mid contract and have them drop off and another to trade em' just before you have to pay them. No doubt though Beane has known what he's doing, and if he can get some team to bite on the kind of value Santana will bring in because of the contract situation why not do it, the A's aren't in contention setup as is. Then if he doesn't see any offers he likes oh well he's got Haren under contract.

I don't understand the idea of Boston going after Haren though, I think the only reason they were going for Johan is it's the best pitcher in the league, left handed, and targeted by their biggest rival. They don't really need to trade for another SP, Buchholz and Lester should be good enough for their rotation to be stable. I think they were Johan or bust.
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Re: Dan Haren

Postby AussieDodger » Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:16 am

I think Uncle Billy will get an awesome package for Haren IF he trades him. I'm not sold on him being traded yet.
He might not get a player as tremendous as Hughes , but he will probably get 3 players that are nearly as good.
Instead of Hughes and some junk like the Yankees are offering.

My gut feeling is Haren or Blanton to St Louis for Colby Rasmus + ? + ?
I'll think of the ? and edit this later :-D
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Re: Dan Haren

Postby hybrid » Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:24 am

I'm not discounting that Beane isn't a good manager. But maybe your giving him a bit to much credit. Last time I looked Hudson had a 3.33 era and 1.22 whip last year. He had one down year ... everything else looks fine to me. Mulder and Zito were both going down hill before they were traded/let go.

Anyways Haren's value is high right now and I only see it dropping in the future. He is a very good/solid picture with no injuries so far, but IMO he is coming off a career year. If someone is willing to believe he is near that of an ace, why not see what he can get from them.
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Re: Dan Haren

Postby RyanK » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:49 am

As mentioned before now is the best market to be trying to trade expendable starting pitching. It makes sense for the As to get players that will help them in the next year or two for Haren when his value is highest, and the FA class of pitchers next off season has some pretty decent names (garland, pedro, glavine, smoltz, lowe, benson, sabathia, basically a few top starters but a bunch of solid middle rotation guys that should deflate the market). The A's will also still have a good rotation even with out Haren and Blanton if they deal both...

Potential A's Starters:

Dan Meyer- (potential)Sleeper of the Year
Start it off with Meyer just because he was aquired at the same time as Haren and I pegged him as a sleeper a few years ago then he kinda fell off the map, but i found out why.
- first round pick out of James Madison #34 overall in 2002, went from college to the bigs in two years with Atlanta, making 6 stops along the way, with an era under 3 in each stop besides college.
- has a low 90s fastball and mid 80 change but has been lacking a dominate breaking ball to keep hitters off balance
- spends 05 and 06 in AAA and has his two worst years, has shoulder surgery and is told he might not be able to pitch again
- This Story talks about Meyers should surgery and story
- Had a rough going when he got called up this fall, but put up strong numbers in AAA after returning from surgery. Going 8-2 with a 3.26 era and 105 K in 115 innings


Rich Harden
Harden is the ace to replace Haren in the Oakland rotation... if healthy all year (which leads me to ask... he should be "good to go" for ST, right?)

Chad Gaudin
Gaudin is another young arm (24) that the As have to work with, last year was his first full season as a starter and he threw 200 innings.. Though he had a 2.91 era april through june and a 6.01 era from july to september, so it will be intersting to see how he does over a second full season.

Lenny DiNardo
DiNardo didnt do poorly in his starting experience last season, only big knack is that he is soft throwing, he makes a solid long relif/spot start

They also have a few guys other young guys who could get a few rotation shots through out the year as well:
Jason Windsor, Dallas Braden, Brad Knox, Mike Madsen...


if all else fails.. a Haren Blanton Harden Gaudin Meyer rotation could be pretty dominate
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Re: Dan Haren

Postby JTWood » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:59 am

The Cow wrote:First let me say it is nice to make a post NOT about the Sox or Yanks! Oh i just did, anyways... I hear a lot of people saying that they would rather give up less to get Haren than pay more to get Santana. I think we can all agree that Johan is the better pitcher. I think we can all agree that Haren is a fine pitcher in his own right. So why not go after Haren? Well Billy Beane is no dummy, he will pry some good prospects in return. But the real reason to NOT go after Haren is that Beane knows when to fold em or deal em. Look at some of these "aces" that Beane has traded or let walk. Tim Hudson, hardly the pitcher he was in Oakland. Mark Mulder, well he was a huge bust and finally Barry Zito, he looks to be a slightly above average pitcher at best. I think it is safe to say that Beane has more info on Haren than anyone on this board. So the fact that he is offering up a pitcher that is signed to a reasonable contract for the next 3 years is telling. Beane realizes that Haren's value will never be higher than it is now, so it is time to deal him. Unless of course his reason for wanting to deal Haren are because he has reason to believe that Haren is in line for an injury. To me Haren looks to good to be true. Haren appears to be fools gold. Why pay less for fools gold in terms of prospects. When you can get real gold, Santana, for a little more. This of course applies to the teams with big pockets. Teams with less revenue have 150 million reason why not to chase Santana.

The Cow

I hope you're right, Mr. Bovine. I just traded him for Sizemore in a points league where starters can put up big numbers compared to hitters.
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Re: Dan Haren

Postby kellythemick » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:27 pm

Have to agree with many of the writers stating that Beane is exploring the market rather than trying to unload Haren do to some impending injury or decline. Haren should remain a top option at SP for a number of years. Why not see what he will bring in return?
If it's obvious it's probably true.
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Re: Dan Haren

Postby Philomath » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:31 pm

kellythemick wrote:Have to agree with many of the writers stating that Beane is exploring the market rather than trying to unload Haren do to some impending injury or decline. Haren should remain a top option at SP for a number of years. Why not see what he will bring in return?


Agreed. I think Haren is healthy. This is Beane exploring the market while his stock is high.
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