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A vote against the trade of Delmon

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A vote against the trade of Delmon

Postby scr » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:29 pm

Trading Delmon for a successful Triple A pitcher who has had very little success on the major league level was a bad move, IMHO.

Delmon has a monster arm in the OF, and showed consistency at the plate. All Delmon needs is some patience-the power will come.

I think Andy bought the Garza hype and traded away a franchise offensive force. Not to mention we are loaded in the minors with great pitching prospects. It's not like Garza is a proven commodity-he's really a prospect with some MLB experience.

Maybe deerayfan or raiders can help me understand this deal. As I see it, we just got paid back for fleecing the Mets out of Kazmir by getting fleeced by the Twins.
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Re: A vote against the trade of Delmon

Postby raiders_umpire » Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:14 am

I haven't really agreed with it either. The only thing I can assume is that either they think Delmon will never turn the corner patience wise, and if you look at it, he has only gotten worse since he was 18. :-? Or Delmon was possibly more of a trouble maker in the locker room then we know about. :-?


But either way, Garza and Bartlett both have to play outstanding to help us out on this deal. Bartlett is "known" to have a great glove, but he has never shown me that he does have a great glove. He is pretty much middle of the pack defensively in the majors so while that is a upgrade over our SS last year, we aren't talking about Tulo and 5 extra wins either, but somewhere around 1-2 extra wins defensively. But really what is so special about league average defensively and league average offensively? Garza has two quality pitches, but most major league starters have to have 3 quality pitches to be good. I don't consider Garza any better then Niemann, Davis, or gang in our minor league system, but he is MLB ready. If Garza develops that third pitch and throws strikes, this deal could be OK for us, but if that never happens, then we will definitely end up on the fleece end of this deal, no matter how good Morlan becomes.



Pretty much we win this deal if

1. Rocco is able to play 155 games in a combo of RF and DH this coming year, as he has the ability to possibly make us forget about Delmon for a little while.
2. Bartlett makes a jump defensively and gets back to his 2006 levels and have a OBP of 380 or so.
3. Garza develops that 3rd pitch, and takes Shields spot as our #2 SP. If Garza is good enough that Shields is our 3rd best pitcher this year, then we could be looking at around 6 or 7 extra wins from that pitching spot.

If two of these things happen, we will probably still be better off with the trade, but if only 1 of these 3 things happen, Mr. Delmon will be greatly missed this coming season and beyond.
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Re: A vote against the trade of Delmon

Postby Pogotheostrich » Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:25 am

Describing Garza as a "successful Triple A pitcher who has had very little success on the major league level" seems a little short-sighted to me. He is a 24 year old pitcher who posted a 3.69 ERA in 15 starts last year. If Delmon reaches his potential no one would make this trade a good one but Garza is someone every team would love to have on their roster.
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Re: A vote against the trade of Delmon

Postby scr » Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:31 pm

Garza may be a positive addition to the SR, but not for Delmon. Maybe I give up Rocco and a prospect for Garza (the prospect is thrown in because it's 50-50 Rocco can play healthy)-but that's about it.

I thought Delmon played alot better than he got credit for last year. I think he will mature into a beast offensively. That said, who knows, Garza could turn out to be Cy Young and the Rays make out on the deal.

'08 could be a circus if Elijah is back. The SPT will have a field day with this one.
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Re: A vote against the trade of Delmon

Postby soxfan364 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:25 pm

As a Garza owner in a deep dynasty league, i'm not too happy about this trade either! Everyone can use pitching,hope it works out for him and the Rays. Can I hope for 12 wins in '08?!
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Re: A vote against the trade of Delmon

Postby deerayfan072 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:19 pm

I think what you saw with DY was part the Team getting someone Major League ready whose ceiling is a number 2 starter and everyday short stop, but also part that we all know DY did not want to be with the Rays and had said he would do his 6 and leave. I have heard they are shopping E-Jax and Howell. I think with the addition of Garza you will see one of the power arms (Niemann/McGee) moved to the pen and maybe be the closer. I also think they may trade some of the young talented pitchers for other position players. If Bartlett were to pan out they could always move Reid to the outfield where he would not be such a defensive liability.

I think short term the Rays will get the upside, but if Young reaches his potential, and that is a big IF, the Rays lose this trade.
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Re: A vote against the trade of Delmon

Postby raiders_umpire » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:24 pm

deerayfan072 wrote:I think what you saw with DY was part the Team getting someone Major League ready whose ceiling is a number 2 starter and everyday short stop, but also part that we all know DY did not want to be with the Rays and had said he would do his 6 and leave. I have heard they are shopping E-Jax and Howell. I think with the addition of Garza you will see one of the power arms (Niemann/McGee) moved to the pen and maybe be the closer. I also think they may trade some of the young talented pitchers for other position players. If Bartlett were to pan out they could always move Reid to the outfield where he would not be such a defensive liability.

I think short term the Rays will get the upside, but if Young reaches his potential, and that is a big IF, the Rays lose this trade.



Brignac's power would be nice from a MI spot, but not from the corner outfield spots. With Crawford already covering LF, we really need 30 homers or maybe even more from the RF spot. If Bartlett works out, which I have my doubts, then Brignac needs to be moved for other needs.
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Re: A vote against the trade of Delmon

Postby deerayfan072 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:39 pm

raiders_umpire wrote:
deerayfan072 wrote:I think what you saw with DY was part the Team getting someone Major League ready whose ceiling is a number 2 starter and everyday short stop, but also part that we all know DY did not want to be with the Rays and had said he would do his 6 and leave. I have heard they are shopping E-Jax and Howell. I think with the addition of Garza you will see one of the power arms (Niemann/McGee) moved to the pen and maybe be the closer. I also think they may trade some of the young talented pitchers for other position players. If Bartlett were to pan out they could always move Reid to the outfield where he would not be such a defensive liability.

I think short term the Rays will get the upside, but if Young reaches his potential, and that is a big IF, the Rays lose this trade.



Brignac's power would be nice from a MI spot, but not from the corner outfield spots. With Crawford already covering LF, we really need 30 homers or maybe even more from the RF spot. If Bartlett works out, which I have my doubts, then Brignac needs to be moved for other needs.


I think Reid will be the future at SS, but I agree he could be moved if Bartlett were to work out
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Re: A vote against the trade of Delmon

Postby raiders_umpire » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:40 pm

raiders_umpire wrote:I haven't really agreed with it either. The only thing I can assume is that either they think Delmon will never turn the corner patience wise, and if you look at it, he has only gotten worse since he was 18. :-? Or Delmon was possibly more of a trouble maker in the locker room then we know about. :-?


But either way, Garza and Bartlett both have to play outstanding to help us out on this deal. Bartlett is "known" to have a great glove, but he has never shown me that he does have a great glove. He is pretty much middle of the pack defensively in the majors so while that is a upgrade over our SS last year, we aren't talking about Tulo and 5 extra wins either, but somewhere around 1-2 extra wins defensively. But really what is so special about league average defensively and league average offensively? Garza has two quality pitches, but most major league starters have to have 3 quality pitches to be good. I don't consider Garza any better then Niemann, Davis, or gang in our minor league system, but he is MLB ready. If Garza develops that third pitch and throws strikes, this deal could be OK for us, but if that never happens, then we will definitely end up on the fleece end of this deal, no matter how good Morlan becomes.



Pretty much we win this deal if

1. Rocco is able to play 155 games in a combo of RF and DH this coming year, as he has the ability to possibly make us forget about Delmon for a little while.
2. Bartlett makes a jump defensively and gets back to his 2006 levels and have a OBP of 380 or so.
3. Garza develops that 3rd pitch, and takes Shields spot as our #2 SP. If Garza is good enough that Shields is our 3rd best pitcher this year, then we could be looking at around 6 or 7 extra wins from that pitching spot.

If two of these things happen, we will probably still be better off with the trade, but if only 1 of these 3 things happen, Mr. Delmon will be greatly missed this coming season and beyond.




Well 2 of the 3 things did happen, and boy did it ever work out. ;-D ;-D
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Re: A vote against the trade of Delmon

Postby scr » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:44 am

Kudos to the DFO for getting it right on Matt. Matt's accomplished what so few young SP's can when they settle in at the major league level-matched the hype that arrived with him in Minnesota.

The '69 Mets have arrived 39 years later in the form of the Rays! This is such an exciting time, one which can't be underestimated! Rays in 6 over the Phillies.
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