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Discussion about the value of hitters and starters

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Discussion about the value of hitters and starters

Postby cordscords » Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:24 pm

There was a great thread here that I cant find that defended starters being just as valuable as every day players, despite the fact they play every 5 days.

Can somebody please link me?
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Re: Discussion about the value of hitters and starters

Postby AussieDodger » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:05 pm

I haven't seen that one , but it might have something to do with:

The maximum a hitter can give you is 11% of your plate appearances.
Your team will pitch around 1458 innings in a year (without extra inn.) and if a SP pitches 200 innings , he will have provided 13.7% of your total innings.
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Re: Discussion about the value of hitters and starters

Postby sublime8414 » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:31 pm

AussieDodger wrote:I haven't seen that one , but it might have something to do with:

The maximum a hitter can give you is 11% of your plate appearances.
Your team will pitch around 1458 innings in a year (without extra inn.) and if a SP pitches 200 innings , he will have provided 13.7% of your total innings.



Hmmm...this is something i really never thought about. I feel like the well he only plays once every 5 days things more of an old baseball myth the more i think about it.

Maybe i'm hijacking this thread, but i've always wondered about the valuation of a top reliever as compared to a back of the rotation starter.

For example going into this off-season as the reds who could use some back end of the rotation help as well as some bullpen help are they better of spending 46 million a kyle lohse or f-cord.
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Re: Discussion about the value of hitters and starters

Postby cordscords » Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:57 pm

AussieDodger wrote:I haven't seen that one , but it might have something to do with:

The maximum a hitter can give you is 11% of your plate appearances.
Your team will pitch around 1458 innings in a year (without extra inn.) and if a SP pitches 200 innings , he will have provided 13.7% of your total innings.


That's the information I wanted to pull out. Thanks ;-D
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Re: Discussion about the value of hitters and starters

Postby HOOTIE » Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:50 am

AussieDodger wrote:I haven't seen that one , but it might have something to do with:

The maximum a hitter can give you is 11% of your plate appearances.
Your team will pitch around 1458 innings in a year (without extra inn.) and if a SP pitches 200 innings , he will have provided 13.7% of your total innings.


Bear wit my keyboard problems.

Eac spot in lineup is wort a additional 18 PA. Youir one spot will turnover more PA ten your 9t spot. 144 PA between 1st and 9t. You also ave to account or 27 outs o deense wit te startin 9. Evereyday players are wort more imo.
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Re: Discussion about the value of hitters and starters

Postby sublime8414 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:05 am

I wonder if there's a place that has the average amount of balls fielded by each position. I assume the pitcher does not end up adding much value by his defense, and some position players do, and therein would lie the reason that a hitter has more value than a pitcher. But I don't know.
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Re: Discussion about the value of hitters and starters

Postby Philomath » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:28 pm

AussieDodger wrote:I haven't seen that one , but it might have something to do with:

The maximum a hitter can give you is 11% of your plate appearances.
Your team will pitch around 1458 innings in a year (without extra inn.) and if a SP pitches 200 innings , he will have provided 13.7% of your total innings.


Quick side thought, when thinking about this information... Does this tend to effect your draft strategy with the percentage of hitters to pitchers? For example, when all done drafting, or by a certain round, you try and have 60% hitters to 40% pitchers.
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Re: Discussion about the value of hitters and starters

Postby sublime8414 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:35 pm

Philomath wrote:
AussieDodger wrote:I haven't seen that one , but it might have something to do with:

The maximum a hitter can give you is 11% of your plate appearances.
Your team will pitch around 1458 innings in a year (without extra inn.) and if a SP pitches 200 innings , he will have provided 13.7% of your total innings.


Quick side thought, when thinking about this information... Does this tend to effect your draft strategy with the percentage of hitters to pitchers? For example, when all done drafting, or by a certain round, you try and have 60% hitters to 40% pitchers.


I dont' think so, because there are different constraints on fantasy baseball. For example jose reyes and jimmy rollins both can see more than 11% of your teams PA, however they still only receive 11% of their team's PA. And there is not a finite amount of innings that your team will pitch except in roto, and even then I'm not sure you want to intentionally stray far from the 60/40 ratio.
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Re: Discussion about the value of hitters and starters

Postby Tavish » Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:15 pm

It looks like the thread is bouncing back and forth between a starter's value in real life vs the value in fantasy.

In real life a starter does not have as much of an impact as an everyday player. At 200 IP and a WHIP around 1.10 a starter will have an impact on about 820 PA. The amount of impact they will have during those match-ups are is constantly up for debate but it is fairly safe to take a conservative estimate that you can give the pitcher credit for about 75% of those and the rest giving credit to the fielders. So pin about 625 PA on the pitcher.

An everyday player will get on average about 650 PA along with the defensive plays they make in the field they will come out creating a much higher impact on a team's success.

In fantasy the value is closer. A starter only has value in 4 categories versus the 5 for everyday players. But the level of impact they have is higher due to them consuming a higher amount of the team's resources (taking 1 of 7 available slots vs a hitter taking 1 of 9 and also the normal IP cap that is used).
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Re: Discussion about the value of hitters and starters

Postby sublime8414 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:20 am

Tavish wrote:In real life a starter does not have as much of an impact as an everyday player. At 200 IP and a WHIP around 1.10 a starter will have an impact on about 820 PA. The amount of impact they will have during those match-ups are is constantly up for debate but it is fairly safe to take a conservative estimate that you can give the pitcher credit for about 75% of those and the rest giving credit to the fielders. So pin about 625 PA on the pitcher.

An everyday player will get on average about 650 PA along with the defensive plays they make in the field they will come out creating a much higher impact on a team's success.



The pitcher has an impact on the PA of everyone that they face, I don't understand why defense would diminish their impact. You could make a case that certain pitchers would have diminshed value if the team were poor defensively. But even in that case the fielders do not diminish the pitchers performance, just the resulting outcome. Perhaps i'm getting ethereal here. But if you look at DIPS then it makes it clear that a pitchers performance can be measured fairly accurately without taking fielding into account.
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