Greatest players

[mariposaskyman]

Agreed that the hitters list is more traditional in view. Some day we'll know better just what and who took the HGH/Steroid route and be able to judge them in context. I hate to see Bonds rated that highly too, considering what most think the case is with him. The pitchers are interesting, especially with the current or recent players so highly rated. Don't know, but maybe we think of the current players in worse light since their wins and other totals just can't compare to earlier eras due to the way they're used today. But should they be punished for that. If Randy Johnson or Greg Maddox pitched in Cy Young's era, wouldn't their totals near his. Maddux has rarely been hurt in his career. If he had been asked to pitched every 4th day instead of every 5th, he likely would have been able to do it, and those 350 wins closer to 420.

[Tavish]

I don't necessarily think that modern pitchers are judged unfairly against older generations due to their limited innings. At least amongst baseball fans/enthusiasts. Other than the typically nostalgia factor, pitchers tend to be judged more on how they compared to their competition, much more so than hitters are. At least with pitchers they have the benefit of the distinct transition in the game, when the gap is 200 IP vs 400 IP people don't expect modern pitchers to compare in many of the counting stats to previous pitchers.

It is a bit more difficult for people to have the same expectation gap with hitters, hitters today are getting 650 PA the same as they did in the 1920s, 1960s, and 1980s so it is easier to try and lump their production together and judged based on that.

[Tavish]

That's a pretty interesting site. The top hitters careers is pretty close to my way of thinking. Mantle is rated more close to my way of thinking than what many others have posted here but I was suprised to see Mel Ott rated so high. And it's impossible for me, personally, not to take steroid/hgh use into account when having this discussion so Bonds at number two might be right on paper but not in my reality.

I think the rankings there pretty much reflect what most people have been saying in the thread. Based on their numbers in terms of production per year Mantle is behind only Ruth, Bonds, Williams, and Gehrig. The other players ahead of him get there based on longer careers. It sort of depends on what you value more.

[mission27]

I always wonder how much better Mantle could have been had he not torn up his knee. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Mantle was one of the fastest players in the game before he torn up his knee on that freaking drainage pipe. It also didn't help that Mantle was a huge alcoholic.

I've read that as well re: Mantle's speed. He was some kind of physically gifted. It's remarkable that between the freak injury and the abuse he rendered upon himself, he's still among the top ten (arguably) of all time. Just astounding.

He might have been the most talented player of all time. The guy still holds the record for the longest home run recorded despite players getting bigger and juiced up. He was also crazy fast and a gold glove type defender. If he hadn't gotten hurt he might be considered the greatest of all time.

[Ra Ra]

C
Johnny Bench
1B
jimmie foxx
2B
nap lajoie
ss
honus wagner
3b
i forget
of
willie mays
of
babe ruth
of
ty cobb
dh
tedd williams

sp
christy matthewson
sp
sandy koufax
sp
bob gibson
sp
tom seaver
sp
roger clemens

rp
mo rivera

[Neato Torpedo]

I think that when Pujols' career is done, he'll make a serious challenge for #1 1B.

[mariposaskyman]

I think you're right. Pujols, if he continues at this pace, will likely end up #2 at first base. When you see how the per year and per eq (equivalent) year factors weight out at http://baseballevaluation.com and the Stat Geek Baseball Best Ever Book, it really makes a case for Pujols. They've got more interesting stuff in the book, including best ever players by career for every team in history. Pujols is going to be making a run at Musial in St. Louis, already #2.

[thedude]

I think that when Pujols' career is done, he'll make a serious challenge for #1 1B.

Pujols won't surpass Foxx or Gehrig IMO.