I'm new to these boards and am looking for some input as to who the best of the best at each position is...
I'm talking since the beginning, and mostly looking at total careers, however if a player had a particularly great season or 2 or 3 (like Maris 61 in 61 or Gagne in 03 or Earl Webb hitting 67 doubles in 1931) we certainly can name those guys too.
The purpose for this exercise is I am playing a simulated baseball game and am trying to put together a league of 24 fairly evenly matched teams featuring the greatest of all time.
The positions that are obviously a little tougher to fill are 2B,SS,3B and C.
Pitching is tough too as if each team has a 5 man rotation that would require 120 pitchers...
Anyway hoping to get some input and spark some interest.
Here is my lists somewhat in order. Its based more on overall career without having many short peak or current players. Certain positions I tend to be more defensive minded so they wouldn't be the exact same for a simulation league which typically put more weight to the offensive side everywhere. 20 is pretty deep but here you go:
C Johnny Bench Buck Ewing Mickey Cochrane Ivan Rodriguez Yogi Berra Mike Piazza Roy Campanella Josh Gibson Gary Carter Bill Dickey Carlton Fisk Ted Simmons Gabby Hartnett Biz Mackay Louis Loftin Thurman Munson Ray Schalk Bill Freehan Roger Bresnahan Jimmie Archer
1B: Lou Gehrig Jimmie Foxx Jeff Bagwell Hank Greenberg George Sisler Frank Thomas Mark McGwire Johnny Mize Albert Pujols Dick Allen Willie McCovey Dan Brouthers Harmon Killebrew Cap Anson Eddie Murray Rafeal Palmerio Roger Connor Don Mattingly Bill Terry Orlando Cepeda
2B Rogers Hornsby Eddie Collins Joe Morgan Nap Lajoie Jackie Robinson Craig Biggio Rod Carew Roberto Alomar Ryne Sandberg Charlie Gehringer Jeff Kent Joe Gordon Larry Doyle Frankie Frisch Bobby Grich Tony Lazerri Nellie Fox Cupid Childs Johnny Evers Red Schoendienst
SS Honus Wagner Alexander Rodriguez Cal Ripken Arky Vaughan Barry Larkin Ernie Banks John Lloyd Derek Jeter Robin Yount Ozzie Smith Luke Applilng Joe Cronin George Davis Babe Dahlen Joe Sewell Rabbit Maranville Lou Boudreau Alan Trammell Miguel Tejada Luis Aparicio
3B Mike Schmidt George Brett Eddie Mathews Pie Traynor Wade Boggs Brooks Robinson Frank Baker Ron Santo Ken Boyer Scott Rolen George Kell Chipper Jones Jimmy Collins Paul Molitor Stan Hack Bill Madlock Darrell Evans Ray Danridge Matt Williams Graig Nettles
RF Babe Ruth Hank Aaron Frank Robinson Mel Ott Al Kaline Roberto Clemente Sam Crawford Tony Gywnn Reggie Jackson Dave Winfield Paul Waner Vladimir Guerrero Gary Sheffield Sam Rice Pete Rose Harry Heilmann Sam Rice Ichiro Suzuki Tony Oliva Sammy Sosa
CF Ty Cobb Mickey Mantle Willie Mays Tris Speaker Joe DiMaggio Oscar Charleston Ken Griffey Jr Duke Snider Billy Hamilton Richie Ashburn Cool Papa Bell Jim Edmonds Kirby Puckett Andruw Jones Paul Hines Larry Doby Fred Lynn Dale Murphy Hugh Duffy Bernie Williams
LF Barry Bonds Stan Musial Ted Williams Joe Jackson Rickey Henderson Billy Williams Al Simmons Carl Yasztrzemski Albert Belle Ralph Kiner Willie Stargell Tim Raines Manny Ramirez Ed Delahanty Zack Wheat Goose Goslin Jim Rice Jesse Burkett Duffy Lewis Fred Clarke
That's an excellent list and I agree with most of the #1s. Just a couple things, though: I'm shocked to see Mantle ahead of Mays-I don't think it's really even close, Mays was better. And Barry Bonds doesn't belong at the top of any list. He probably would have been a HOFer without the roids and HGH but he certainly wouldn't have been in the same class as Musial, Williams, Aaron or Frank Robinson. I think he would have been lucky to be comparable to Clemente.
hwiggen wrote:That's an excellent list and I agree with most of the #1s. Just a couple things, though: I'm shocked to see Mantle ahead of Mays-I don't think it's really even close, Mays was better. And Barry Bonds doesn't belong at the top of any list. He probably would have been a HOFer without the roids and HGH but he certainly wouldn't have been in the same class as Musial, Williams, Aaron or Frank Robinson. I think he would have been lucky to be comparable to Clemente.
I think the Mays vs Mantle is much closer than you are making it out to be. Mays had an advantage in durability and base stealing, Mantle was either equal or better everywhere else. 1956-1957 Mantle is in the same discussion for most dominating stretch with 1920s Ruth, the 2000-2004 Bonds, 1924-1925 Hornsby, and 1910-1913 Cobb.
I definitely will pass on the Bonds/HGH debate, but he very easily could have won 5 MVP awards by the time he was 30. He was far and away the best player of the 1990s and had close statistical comparison to guys like Mays and Snider when he was 30. For a simulation league that doesn't take any of the "outside baseball" things into consideration, the level he elevated to his game to as he reached his late 30s and early 40s makes him a fairly easy pick as the greatest at the position.
I always wonder how much better Mantle could have been had he not torn up his knee. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Mantle was one of the fastest players in the game before he torn up his knee on that freaking drainage pipe. It also didn't help that Mantle was a huge alcoholic.
KCollins1304 wrote:I always wonder how much better Mantle could have been had he not torn up his knee. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Mantle was one of the fastest players in the game before he torn up his knee on that freaking drainage pipe. It also didn't help that Mantle was a huge alcoholic.
I've read that as well re: Mantle's speed. He was some kind of physically gifted. It's remarkable that between the freak injury and the abuse he rendered upon himself, he's still among the top ten (arguably) of all time. Just astounding.
You might want to take a look at the lists at http://www.baseballevaluation.com. They have all-time best player and pitcher rankings, plus yearly and career player grades and other stuff. Kinda interesting and it might help.
That's a pretty interesting site. The top hitters careers is pretty close to my way of thinking. Mantle is rated more close to my way of thinking than what many others have posted here but I was suprised to see Mel Ott rated so high. And it's impossible for me, personally, not to take steroid/hgh use into account when having this discussion so Bonds at number two might be right on paper but not in my reality. I was really suprised by the pitching list, though. So many recent and current pitchers in the top twenty. And again, the probable steroid user(s) on the list is a problem for me. Maybe recent pitchers are more highly rated because there's so much offense nowdays. I would argue that there are so many more teams now that it's not just pitching that's diluted but also hitting; so the best hitters AND pitchers look better. Of course, then the argument could be made that there's so many foriegn players today that the talent really is not diluted... Taking that a step further, you could argue that a lot of top talent, several decades ago, never even pursued professional baseball becuase they could make more money doing something else.
Cafe Home
Fantasy Football
Fantasy Basketball
Fantasy Hockey
by greg.simonster » Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:06 am 
