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This makes me mad

Postby Big Pimpin » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:41 am

Behold the wonder that is San Francisco. How about a legal injection room?

Seriously? I mean these are the kind of people that you want to spend public money on to keep safe? I guess I just don't understand at all. I'm fine with spending some money to help people kick the habit, but spending money to give people a safe place with nurses to shoot up? Unbelievable! :-t :-t
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Re: This pisses me off

Postby Art Vandelay » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:52 am

I'd much rather they have a place like this to shoot up than do it in a park or some other public place with nowhere to properly dispose of the needles. I'll be curious to see how much public money goes into this, but I suspect that it will be minimal, especially when you consider this:
Drug overdoses represented about one of every seven emergency calls handled by city paramedics between July 2006 and July 2007, according to San Francisco Fire Department Capt. Niels Tangherlini

How much public money do you think goes into emergency care for users who OD? Even if this center only results in a 10% decline in the number of OD calls that emergency crews answer, it will still save a lot of money.
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Re: This pisses me off

Postby AcidRock23 » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:57 am

Who gets to decide what they listen to on the stereo? Einsturzende Neubaten, VU, Nick Cave, The GoGos? hmmm.....
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Re: This pisses me off

Postby Mookie4ever » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:16 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:Behold the wonder that is San Francisco. How about a legal injection room?

Seriously? I mean these are the kind of people that you want to spend public money on to keep safe? I guess I just don't understand at all. I'm fine with spending some money to help people kick the habit, but spending money to give people a safe place with nurses to shoot up? Unbelievable! :-t :-t


The only objection to this is the moral/deterrance argmt. eg. how can we tell kids this is bad when we spend public money to facilitate it? This is the same argmt used to argue against the teaching of contraception in schools.

Of course the better solution is abstinance - for both the sex ed./STD issue and the injection room problem.

If you are of the opinion that abstinence only doesn't work and you make this only an economic decision then the injection room probably makes sense.
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Re: This pisses me off

Postby Big Pimpin » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:57 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:I'd much rather they have a place like this to shoot up than do it in a park or some other public place with nowhere to properly dispose of the needles. I'll be curious to see how much public money goes into this, but I suspect that it will be minimal, especially when you consider this:
Drug overdoses represented about one of every seven emergency calls handled by city paramedics between July 2006 and July 2007, according to San Francisco Fire Department Capt. Niels Tangherlini

How much public money do you think goes into emergency care for users who OD? Even if this center only results in a 10% decline in the number of OD calls that emergency crews answer, it will still save a lot of money.


Looking back I did use money a lot in that first post. That is certainly one thing I don't like (not that I like them spending a ton of paramedic money on homeless guy ODs either, but that's a whole other topic). However, the really disappointing thing is that they're encouraging this behavior by giving them a safe place to do it.

Maybe they could reopen Alcatraz. Everyone that walks into this injection room gets arrested and shipped to the island. There's no drugs and no way to get off (unless you're Sean Connery of course ;-) ). They can just rot there and detox or drown trying to get back to the H. I mean that's extreme but I'd support that before I'd support a legal injection room.


Mookie4ever wrote:The only objection to this is the moral/deterrance argmt. eg. how can we tell kids this is bad when we spend public money to facilitate it? This is the same argmt used to argue against the teaching of contraception in schools.

Of course the better solution is abstinance - for both the sex ed./STD issue and the injection room problem.

If you are of the opinion that abstinence only doesn't work and you make this only an economic decision then the injection room probably makes sense.


I don't think the moral/deterrence argument is the only argument. I mean this is illegal activity that you're just going to condone? And not only condone, but basically encourage? I've got serious issues with this (regardless of whether or not I think the drug use should be illegal). And I don't think you want to get me started on schools and sex. :-b
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Re: This pisses me off

Postby Snakes Gould » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:11 pm

what if someone set up a rape room where you can take a girl and rape her safely, so that when you're done, there are nurses there to take care of her, so we dont have to waste the money on an emergency dispatcher (police, medic, etc...). would that make any sense? :-o :-t
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Re: This pisses me off

Postby Omaha Red Sox » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:26 pm

Snakes Gould wrote:what if someone set up a rape room where you can take a girl and rape her safely, so that when you're done, there are nurses there to take care of her, so we dont have to waste the money on an emergency dispatcher (police, medic, etc...). would that make any sense? :-o :-t


Nope. And neither does this.

Basically we're going to begin eliminating punishments for wrongdoings because they're going to happen anyway. We can't stop them, so just make sure when they do commit these crimes that it's done on our terms. What?

"The underlying philosophy is, 'We accept drug addiction, we accept the state of affairs as acceptable,'" Madras said. "This is a form of giving up."


This isn't right. It just isn't. There isn't anything right about any of this. There is a reason why there are consequences, why parents and teachers tell you not to do drugs. There's a balance and these ideas will screw with the balance. Doing the right thing is supposed to feel good. Doing the wrong thing is supposed to hurt. Take that balance away and you have nothing.
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Re: This pisses me off

Postby Mookie4ever » Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:13 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:The only objection to this is the moral/deterrance argmt. eg. how can we tell kids this is bad when we spend public money to facilitate it? This is the same argmt used to argue against the teaching of contraception in schools.

Of course the better solution is abstinance - for both the sex ed./STD issue and the injection room problem.

If you are of the opinion that abstinence only doesn't work and you make this only an economic decision then the injection room probably makes sense.


I don't think the moral/deterrence argument is the only argument. I mean this is illegal activity that you're just going to condone? And not only condone, but basically encourage? I've got serious issues with this (regardless of whether or not I think the drug use should be illegal). And I don't think you want to get me started on schools and sex. :-b


That is the moral argument BP. The reason that this is illegal activity is b/c it offends morality. There are places in the world with different morals where use of recreational drugs is not illegal. If recreational drugs where legalized and the use of the drugs restricted to certain designated areas then would anyone object to this? If all drug use was legalized and subject to controls then the only issue would be whether this makes economic sense (and it wouldn't b/c at this point business interests would take over and find a way to make a profit on this).
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Re: This pisses me off

Postby Madison » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:11 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:How much public money do you think goes into emergency care for users who OD? Even if this center only results in a 10% decline in the number of OD calls that emergency crews answer, it will still save a lot of money.


If we'd just hang up on those idiots instead of wasting money to save them just so they can try to kill themselves again, then "money spent/saved" wouldn't be an issue.

Something like this just makes me sick though. If people are dumb enough to do drugs, then they should be held accountable and pay the price for their actions.

Oh wait.....I keep forgetting that we live in a society where there no longer is such things like self control and being responsible for your own actions. :-t
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Re: This pisses me off

Postby Mookie4ever » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:23 pm

Madison wrote:Something like this just makes me sick though. If people are dumb enough to do drugs, then they should be held accountable and pay the price for their actions.

Oh wait.....I keep forgetting that we live in a society where there no longer is such things like self control and being responsible for your own actions. :-t


I agree with this. I'm also in favour of huge taxes on liquor and cigarettes to pay for the increased costs associated with taking care of their health problems. And huge taxes on cars and petrol to pay for all of the services and infrastructure costs associated with those.

Either that or make all roads toll roads and deny health coverage for people with liver disease and lung cancer.

Seriously. People who don't drink, smoke or drive are pretty low maintenance and should not have to pay to support others. Of course there would be higher costs to some goods b/c of increased delivery costs but if you live a clean lifestyle you should be rewarded.
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