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What do Jack Cust, Carlo Pena have in common?

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Re: What do Jack Cust, Carlo Pena have in common?

Postby SlightlyStoopid » Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:48 pm

Field wrote:I'm more surprised that they had an OBP higher than Holliday than either Vlad or Ichiro since they are notorious free-swingers.


Talking of free swingers: Cust K'd 164 times this year, good for fourth in the majors.
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Re: What do Jack Cust, Carlo Pena have in common?

Postby Y`s Guy » Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:05 pm

Cust and Pena each took an enhancement drug that really enlarged their patience receptors within their brain. A physician was on Outside The Lines with Bob Ley three days ago talking about it. I think the drug is called poisedone.
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Re: What do Jack Cust, Carlo Pena have in common?

Postby The Cow » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:32 pm

Yoda wrote:
The Cow wrote:Well Cust didn't even play all year and was often benched against lefties. So Cust's BB total is even more impressive. Oh and maybe Holliday isn't as good as he is given credit for in this forum.. Maybe the ballpark helps Holliday out a bit.

The Cow


But why stop there? CC's pitching environment should be taken into account for Cy Young votes. Great pitcher's park and weak division opponents. Credit Beckett more since he is pitching in a more neutral park and a much tougher division. Actually, we should give the AL Cy to Kazmir since his team blows and is probalby in the toughest pitching environment for any young pitcher.

Peavy should get some demerits for NL Cy also since his home park is so much better than anyone else's and give it to Webb since AZ is a great hitters park.


Well C.C. Home numbers 3.13 ERA 1.13 WHIP and .258 BAA practically mirror his road stats of 3.32 1.15 .261 BAA, on the other hand Mr Hollidays splits are bonkers:
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Home 82 327 67 123 28 5 25 82 28 58 4 1 .376 .435 .722 1.157
Away 76 309 53 93 22 1 11 55 35 68 7 3 .301 .374 .485 .860

Do you not see the HUGE difference between home and road numbers. So if Holliday played all games on the roads his numbers would be:
.301 106 22 110, good numbers, yes, but FAR from MVP numbers. Almost a 300 point difference in OPS Home vs Road .297, 25 HR at home versus 11 on the road, .376 BA home versus .301 road. Now as a fantasy owner it does not matter how he gets his numbers, but as far as real numbers goes well his numbers need to be normalized.

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Re: What do Jack Cust, Carlo Pena have in common?

Postby Yoda » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:47 am

The Cow wrote:
Yoda wrote:
The Cow wrote:Well Cust didn't even play all year and was often benched against lefties. So Cust's BB total is even more impressive. Oh and maybe Holliday isn't as good as he is given credit for in this forum.. Maybe the ballpark helps Holliday out a bit.

The Cow


But why stop there? CC's pitching environment should be taken into account for Cy Young votes. Great pitcher's park and weak division opponents. Credit Beckett more since he is pitching in a more neutral park and a much tougher division. Actually, we should give the AL Cy to Kazmir since his team blows and is probalby in the toughest pitching environment for any young pitcher.

Peavy should get some demerits for NL Cy also since his home park is so much better than anyone else's and give it to Webb since AZ is a great hitters park.


Well C.C. Home numbers 3.13 ERA 1.13 WHIP and .258 BAA practically mirror his road stats of 3.32 1.15 .261 BAA, on the other hand Mr Hollidays splits are bonkers:
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Home 82 327 67 123 28 5 25 82 28 58 4 1 .376 .435 .722 1.157
Away 76 309 53 93 22 1 11 55 35 68 7 3 .301 .374 .485 .860

Do you not see the HUGE difference between home and road numbers. So if Holliday played all games on the roads his numbers would be:
.301 106 22 110, good numbers, yes, but FAR from MVP numbers. Almost a 300 point difference in OPS Home vs Road .297, 25 HR at home versus 11 on the road, .376 BA home versus .301 road. Now as a fantasy owner it does not matter how he gets his numbers, but as far as real numbers goes well his numbers need to be normalized.

The Cow


Not surprisingly you only used the stats to benefit your argument.

Beckett at home vs road:
17 GS, 9 W, 110 IP, 112/24 K/BB, 4.17 ERA, 1.20 WHIP
13 GS, 11 W, 90.2 IP, 82/16 K/BB, 2.18 ERA, 1.07 WHIP

CC at home vs road:
19 GS, 11 W, 135.1 IP, 134/19 K/BB, 3.13 ERA, 1.13 WHIP
15 GS, 8 W, 105.2 IP, 75/18 K/BB, 3.32 ERA, 1.15 WHIP

If Beckett pitched half of his games at Jacobs and CC pitched half of his games at Fenway, guess whose final numbers would be better? Add to it the fact that Beckett faces much tougher teams in the East and this is not even a debate. So do you really want to factor in park to decide MVPs and CYs? Yeah I thought so.
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Re: What do Jack Cust, Carlo Pena have in common?

Postby The Cow » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:30 pm

The Cow[/quote]

But why stop there? CC's pitching environment should be taken into account for Cy Young votes. Great pitcher's park and weak division opponents. Credit Beckett more since he is pitching in a more neutral park and a much tougher division. Actually, we should give the AL Cy to Kazmir since his team blows and is probalby in the toughest pitching environment for any young pitcher.

Peavy should get some demerits for NL Cy also since his home park is so much better than anyone else's and give it to Webb since AZ is a great hitters park.[/quote]

Well C.C. Home numbers 3.13 ERA 1.13 WHIP and .258 BAA practically mirror his road stats of 3.32 1.15 .261 BAA, on the other hand Mr Hollidays splits are bonkers:
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Home 82 327 67 123 28 5 25 82 28 58 4 1 .376 .435 .722 1.157
Away 76 309 53 93 22 1 11 55 35 68 7 3 .301 .374 .485 .860

Do you not see the HUGE difference between home and road numbers. So if Holliday played all games on the roads his numbers would be:
.301 106 22 110, good numbers, yes, but FAR from MVP numbers. Almost a 300 point difference in OPS Home vs Road .297, 25 HR at home versus 11 on the road, .376 BA home versus .301 road. Now as a fantasy owner it does not matter how he gets his numbers, but as far as real numbers goes well his numbers need to be normalized.

The Cow[/quote]

Not surprisingly you only used the stats to benefit your argument.

Beckett at home vs road:
17 GS, 9 W, 110 IP, 112/24 K/BB, 4.17 ERA, 1.20 WHIP
13 GS, 11 W, 90.2 IP, 82/16 K/BB, 2.18 ERA, 1.07 WHIP

CC at home vs road:
19 GS, 11 W, 135.1 IP, 134/19 K/BB, 3.13 ERA, 1.13 WHIP
15 GS, 8 W, 105.2 IP, 75/18 K/BB, 3.32 ERA, 1.15 WHIP

If Beckett pitched half of his games at Jacobs and CC pitched half of his games at Fenway, guess whose final numbers would be better? Add to it the fact that Beckett faces much tougher teams in the East and this is not even a debate. So do you really want to factor in park to decide MVPs and CYs? Yeah I thought so.[/quote]

Man you were trying to say that C.C.'s home road splits were on the same plain as Holliday's home road splits which is nuts!! And you know it. Its not just Holliday that has crazy home road splits it is the entire Rockies team, don't believe me then look at their home versus road OPS, basically every Rockies hitter I checked Holliday, Atkins, Hawpe, Matsui had an OPS 200 points or more higher at home than on the road, the exception was Helton who had an OPS "only" 100 points higher at home than on the road. To comapre the Rockies home/road splits to C.C.'s home road splits is a very poor comparison as there is no comparison. Are you going to even attempt to tell me that Holliday would post the same numbers or anywhere near them if he did not play half his games at Coors? No you will not. Holliday is a produce of Coors Field and his bloated numbers reflect that.

Now if you want to compare C.C. to Beckett that is a more reasonable comparison and that probably belongs in a AL CY Young thread.

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Re: What do Jack Cust, Carlo Pena have in common?

Postby wkelly91 » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:50 pm

But did either draw 100 walks? :-o
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