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POLL: Safe or Out: Matt Holliday

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Safe? Out? Inconclusive? Interference?

Safe
9
14%
Out
27
43%
Inconclusive (Even with Replay)
26
41%
Interference
1
2%
 
Total votes : 63

Re: POLL: Safe or Out: Matt Holliday

Postby theclefe » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:03 am

tinfoilxtouch wrote:This is insane. He was either safe by virtue of touching the plate or safe by virtue of interference. A catcher CANNOT block the plate without the ball, period, end of story. Just because the ump *usually* bends the rule and allows it doesn't change the rule when he doesn't decide to bend it. By the book, he was safe by one of two measures. End of story.


He was definitely out. Barrett wasn't blocking the plate. He just has a wide stance and was tapping his foot while waiting for the ball. There was plenty of room for Holliday to slide between his legs, but he is clearly a terrible slider. If you slide into someones foot then it isn't interference, rather a poor slide. Story continues.
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Re: POLL: Safe or Out: Matt Holliday

Postby theclefe » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:29 am

Taking a page out of ACS's book, here is an estimation on the good and bad slide zones for Holliday. As you can see, he chose a bad slide zone.

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It is simple science.
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Re: POLL: Safe or Out: Matt Holliday

Postby dclark0699 » Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:21 pm

theclefe wrote:
tinfoilxtouch wrote:This is insane. He was either safe by virtue of touching the plate or safe by virtue of interference. A catcher CANNOT block the plate without the ball, period, end of story. Just because the ump *usually* bends the rule and allows it doesn't change the rule when he doesn't decide to bend it. By the book, he was safe by one of two measures. End of story.


He was definitely out. Barrett wasn't blocking the plate. He just has a wide stance and was tapping his foot while waiting for the ball. There was plenty of room for Holliday to slide between his legs, but he is clearly a terrible slider. If you slide into someones foot then it isn't interference, rather a poor slide. Story continues.


I don't think "out" is even an option. He was never tagged, therefore he cannot actually be out. I still think he should have ran him over instead of sliding.
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Re: POLL: Safe or Out: Matt Holliday

Postby stevethumb » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:01 pm

it's not interference (offensive players interfere w/defensive players)...it's obstruction and it's NOT obstruction IF the defensive player is making an attempt to make a play (or field a batted ball)..so the only question on this play is IF holliday touched the plate or not...the umpire was 4-5 feet away from the plate (just outside the left hand batter's box) but barrett's foot/leg may have blocked that corner of the plate from his field of vision..McClelland called what he saw
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Re: POLL: Safe or Out: Matt Holliday

Postby Bwanna » Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:00 pm

dclark0699 wrote:I don't think "out" is even an option. He was never tagged, therefore he cannot actually be out. I still think he should have ran him over instead of sliding.

Pretty sure Barrett picked the ball up and tagged him after a few seconds.
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Re: POLL: Safe or Out: Matt Holliday

Postby dclark0699 » Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:04 pm

Bwanna wrote:
dclark0699 wrote:I don't think "out" is even an option. He was never tagged, therefore he cannot actually be out. I still think he should have ran him over instead of sliding.

Pretty sure Barrett picked the ball up and tagged him after a few seconds.


The way I remember it, Barrett picks up the ball, but before he tags him the umpire calls him safe and Barrett does not apply the tag.
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Re: POLL: Safe or Out: Matt Holliday

Postby StlSluggers » Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:16 pm

dclark0699 wrote:
Bwanna wrote:
dclark0699 wrote:I don't think "out" is even an option. He was never tagged, therefore he cannot actually be out. I still think he should have ran him over instead of sliding.

Pretty sure Barrett picked the ball up and tagged him after a few seconds.


The way I remember it, Barrett picks up the ball, but before he tags him the umpire calls him safe and Barrett does not apply the tag.

Now you're arguing semantics. Barrett had picked the ball up and was on his way to tag Holliday, who was not making a bit of an attempt to tag the plate. If the ump had made no signal, Barrett would have tagged him before Holliday touched the plate again. That's one of the few assumptions I feel 100% comfortable making in this whole debacle.
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Re: POLL: Safe or Out: Matt Holliday

Postby Bwanna » Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:17 pm

dclark0699 wrote:The way I remember it, Barrett picks up the ball, but before he tags him the umpire calls him safe and Barrett does not apply the tag.

From the replay I just watched for the 37th time, you're right about the first part, but after the ump calls him safe, he applies the tag with his glove hand. He grabbed the loose ball with his throwing hand, transferred it to his glove, McClelland calls Matt safe, and Barrett tags Holliday on the thigh (although halfheartedly after seeing the call).

So there's definitely an argument for him being out if Holliday didn't touch the plate.
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Re: POLL: Safe or Out: Matt Holliday

Postby dclark0699 » Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:22 pm

Bwanna wrote:
dclark0699 wrote:The way I remember it, Barrett picks up the ball, but before he tags him the umpire calls him safe and Barrett does not apply the tag.

From the replay I just watched for the 37th time, you're right about the first part, but after the ump calls him safe, he applies the tag with his glove hand. He grabbed the loose ball with his throwing hand, transferred it to his glove, McClelland calls Matt safe, and Barrett tags Holliday on the thigh (although halfheartedly after seeing the call).

So there's definitely an argument for him being out if Holliday didn't touch the plate.


Ok...It's possible I was freaking out and running in circles celebrating when that happened....even the third or fourth time I saw it :-)
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Re: POLL: Safe or Out: Matt Holliday

Postby acsguitar » Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:41 pm

I don't think he did tag him aftewards
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