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Bradley's Latest Altercation: Umps to Blame?

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Re: Bradley's Latest Altercation: Umps to Blame?

Postby Yoda » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:58 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:You mean fat? He was batting .167 in September with 2 RBI.


He did miss a couple of weeks...
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Re: Bradley's Latest Altercation: Umps to Blame?

Postby Bwanna » Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:04 pm

Yoda wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:You mean fat? He was batting .167 in September with 2 RBI.


He did miss a couple of weeks...

.313, 11 homers and 30 runs batted in in the 42 games he had played since joining the club in June.

I'd say that's a factor for a team tied with Philly for the wildcard spot.

You can piss on Bradley all you want... but don't hold any back for Winters, that's my point.

Good article here...
Mark Kriegel wrote:On the Mark: Selig needs to check umps

Contrary to popular opinion, sportswriting is a hazardous vocation. Everyday my colleagues risk wrath and embarrassment. With that in mind, I now take the most precarious position in all of sports: giving the Padres' Milton Bradley the benefit of the doubt.

Whatever Winters actually said, Bradley's resulting tantrum did not end until he limped off the field with what was later diagnosed — according to FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal — as a torn ACL. He's out for the season, and if the Padres somehow manage to hold off the Phillies and the Rockies, the postseason, too.

Milton Bradley deserves no credit for acting, once again, like Milton Bradley. He's had a bad rep with the umps, and just about everyone else, since he was in the minors. He is what he is. But if Winters is found to have egged him on, he is something worse. The last thing baseball needs is an umpire violating the integrity of the game, and that's what we're talking about here.

"In 26 years of baseball, I can honestly say that's the most disconcerting conversation I have ever heard from an umpire to a player," said Padres first base coach Bobby Meacham, who has a reputation for even temperedness. "It was almost like he wanted to agitate the whole thing."


Rockies first baseman Todd Helton, another eyewitness, would only tell the San Diego Union Tribune that the Bradley-Winters conversation "was very interesting." Helton is not in an enviable spot, but that shouldn't save him from talking to an investigator from the commissioner's office.

Bradley was quick to compare Major League Baseball with the NBA, whose commissioner indefinitely suspended referee Joey Crawford two days after a now-famous altercation with Tim Duncan. He has a point. Umpires shouldn't be affecting games, much less pennant races. What's more, baseball has a history of letting investigations drag on. This time, Bud Selig needs to deal with and dispose of this matter as soon and as transparently as possible. Announcing his findings on Tuesday would send the right signal for a change.

Bradley says Winters accused him of throwing a bat earlier in the game. But that seems to have been just a flashpoint. There's talk that the umpires have it in for San Diego — who saw David Wells suspended for seven games earlier in the season — because Padres CEO Sandy Alderson, who served as their supervisor when he worked for the commissioner, was a tough boss.

There is also talk that the umpires have gotten a little out of control. Just hours before the Bradley-Winters mess, after the Brewers lost to Atlanta, Milwaukee manager Ned Yost blasted the umpires: "There's got to be some accountability," he told the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel. "You've got kids out there busting their butt and playing their hearts out and you get that kind of effort? It's a joke.

"We expect them to do their job just like we're doing our job. You're paid to get the calls right it wasn't even just today. It was the whole series."

If you can't believe the officials calling the game, you can't believe the game. You don't have to be David Stern to know that. So here's hoping that Selig makes a quick ruling and I can go back to my regular job, goofing on people like Milton Bradley.
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Re: Bradley's Latest Altercation: Umps to Blame?

Postby Mookie4ever » Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:19 pm

Bwanna wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:You mean fat? He was batting .167 in September with 2 RBI.


He did miss a couple of weeks...

.313, 11 homers and 30 runs batted in in the 42 games he had played since joining the club in June.

I'd say that's a factor for a team tied with Philly for the wildcard spot.



kudos to Yoda and Bwanna for selective misquoting. The issue was whether

Yoda wrote:While Winters didn't directly injure Bradley, the fact of the matter is, he is out for the season and his team may be out of contention as a result.


Yoda was trying to say that Winters has taken the Padres out of contention. Once I stopped chuckling about the concept of the Padres having a chance to win anything I pointed out that (a) Bradley has been his usual injured unproductive self; (b) Winters was not responsible for the injury, Bradley's lack of conditioning and hair trigger temper were
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Re: Bradley's Latest Altercation: Umps to Blame?

Postby Yoda » Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:26 pm

Bwanna wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:You mean fat? He was batting .167 in September with 2 RBI.


He did miss a couple of weeks...

.313, 11 homers and 30 runs batted in in the 42 games he had played since joining the club in June.

I'd say that's a factor for a team tied with Philly for the wildcard spot.

You can piss on Bradley all you want... but don't hold any back for Winters, that's my point.

Good article here...
Mark Kriegel wrote:On the Mark: Selig needs to check umps

Contrary to popular opinion, sportswriting is a hazardous vocation. Everyday my colleagues risk wrath and embarrassment. With that in mind, I now take the most precarious position in all of sports: giving the Padres' Milton Bradley the benefit of the doubt.

Whatever Winters actually said, Bradley's resulting tantrum did not end until he limped off the field with what was later diagnosed — according to FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal — as a torn ACL. He's out for the season, and if the Padres somehow manage to hold off the Phillies and the Rockies, the postseason, too.

Milton Bradley deserves no credit for acting, once again, like Milton Bradley. He's had a bad rep with the umps, and just about everyone else, since he was in the minors. He is what he is. But if Winters is found to have egged him on, he is something worse. The last thing baseball needs is an umpire violating the integrity of the game, and that's what we're talking about here.

"In 26 years of baseball, I can honestly say that's the most disconcerting conversation I have ever heard from an umpire to a player," said Padres first base coach Bobby Meacham, who has a reputation for even temperedness. "It was almost like he wanted to agitate the whole thing."


Rockies first baseman Todd Helton, another eyewitness, would only tell the San Diego Union Tribune that the Bradley-Winters conversation "was very interesting." Helton is not in an enviable spot, but that shouldn't save him from talking to an investigator from the commissioner's office.

Bradley was quick to compare Major League Baseball with the NBA, whose commissioner indefinitely suspended referee Joey Crawford two days after a now-famous altercation with Tim Duncan. He has a point. Umpires shouldn't be affecting games, much less pennant races. What's more, baseball has a history of letting investigations drag on. This time, Bud Selig needs to deal with and dispose of this matter as soon and as transparently as possible. Announcing his findings on Tuesday would send the right signal for a change.

Bradley says Winters accused him of throwing a bat earlier in the game. But that seems to have been just a flashpoint. There's talk that the umpires have it in for San Diego — who saw David Wells suspended for seven games earlier in the season — because Padres CEO Sandy Alderson, who served as their supervisor when he worked for the commissioner, was a tough boss.

There is also talk that the umpires have gotten a little out of control. Just hours before the Bradley-Winters mess, after the Brewers lost to Atlanta, Milwaukee manager Ned Yost blasted the umpires: "There's got to be some accountability," he told the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel. "You've got kids out there busting their butt and playing their hearts out and you get that kind of effort? It's a joke.

"We expect them to do their job just like we're doing our job. You're paid to get the calls right it wasn't even just today. It was the whole series."

If you can't believe the officials calling the game, you can't believe the game. You don't have to be David Stern to know that. So here's hoping that Selig makes a quick ruling and I can go back to my regular job, goofing on people like Milton Bradley.


I agree... something really needs to be done about these umps.
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Re: Bradley's Latest Altercation: Umps to Blame?

Postby Tavish » Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:11 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:You mean fat? He was batting .167 in September with 2 RBI.

You forget he plays for the Padres. Those numbers qualify him for the team's Offensive MVP award.
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Re: Bradley's Latest Altercation: Umps to Blame?

Postby Mookie4ever » Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:04 pm

Tavish wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:You mean fat? He was batting .167 in September with 2 RBI.

You forget he plays for the Padres. Those numbers qualify him for the team's Offensive MVP award.



You have a point. At this moment wrveres is probably running Winters off the road.
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Re: Bradley's Latest Altercation: Umps to Blame?

Postby Bwanna » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:48 pm

This thread appears to have turned into Bradley bashing, Winters-esque name-calling thread... a lotta hate out there for Milt.

Back to the original question... yes, in my opinion, from what I've read about the incident, Winters was certainly largely responsible, as would anyone be that calls another individual a "(bleeping) piece of (bleep)", especially if their role is to control and prevent that type of behavior so that a game of baseball can be played.

Of course, he wasn't entirely responsible, as Bradley certainly reacted as I'm guessing most of us would -- at least those like myself that lack the strong inner fortitude to put with those types of personal insults.

As long as you guys are dwelling on history, Winters has a bit of history that doesn't help his case any:
Tom Krasovic wrote: September 25, 2007
SAN FRANCISCO – Milton Bradley wasn't the first ballplayer to go after umpire Mike Winters and say afterward that Winters made a derogatory remark that fueled a fire.

In June 1998, the Giants' Charlie Hayes snapped after hearing from Winters.
“He told me to go (expletive) myself,” Hayes told the San Francisco Chronicle. “The next one who says that to me, I'm hitting in the mouth.”

The scene that played out at Candlestick Park nine years ago was similar to the combative events of Sunday at Petco Park.

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Re: Bradley's Latest Altercation: Umps to Blame?

Postby stevethumb » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:23 am

milton bradley was wrong in his over reaction.....BUT the umpire was the instigator and catalyst for this incident and must be punished...bradley is taking his lead off first when winters calls him a "f#ck*ng piece of sh*t"..now we have all seen heated arguments w/much worse obscenities BUT not when the play is live and not when the umpire initiates the abuse..
it works both ways..a player or manager is given leeway w/obscenity when arguing as long as it doesnt become personal...the call was f%ck*ng awful is ok but YOU are f%ck*ng awful is immediate ejection...winters violated every conceivable tenet of unbiased officiating
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Re: Bradley's Latest Altercation: Umps to Blame?

Postby AcidRock23 » Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:03 am

One think that suggests that Bradley didn't lose control was the fact that he called time first, before going to attack the umpire. ;-D

I can't agree that an ump has ANY business razzing a player or calling him names. I suspect that an ump could razz a player just as hard by reiterating their position on a call should any issues arise but if Winters did unload a bunch of potty mouth garbage on perhaps the most volatile player in the league, that just speaks of his lack of professionalism that really should embarrass the profession. I think that the first base coach's 'first move' to tell him to back off/ shut the hell up suggests that whatever the 'culture' of baseball allows an ump to get away with, Winters went too far.
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Re: Bradley's Latest Altercation: Umps to Blame?

Postby costag » Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:28 pm

I don't blame the umpire at all. Bradley is a grown up and should act like it. So someone called you a F'n piece of Sh#t. I am sure if Bradley went to first base and didn't say a word to the first base ump, he'd still be playing. Can't take what you dish up, then shut up.

Anyway, I referee Ice hockey and the top level that I work in is Collegiate. Rules make it very easy for an ump/referee to throw someone out the game or give them a penalty. I also ref 8 year olds and ,of course, by no means do I let someone of that age curse, back talk or question a call. We aren't supposed to. How else would they learn respect for the game. Not many breaks are given to players of that age range.

As they get older, I can say they are given a little more slack and especially when they get to be an adult. I think the only time I have cursed while Officiating was in a Collegiate/Men's league game. They curse at officals all the time and argue calls and don't get assessed penalties in most cases (unless they do it in a threatening manner or doesn't give it up), and a few times I have had to say to a player "Shut the F-ck up" or "stop being such a F'in Ahole". Adults seem to comprehend this better then trying to keep your calm and let it go in one ear and out the other. When it's let go, they tend to keep it up until things escalate until penalties are given.

I don't condone what the umpire might have said to Bradley but what would have happened if the umpire threw him out right away for instigating the arguement. I garauntee the same thing would have happened anyway. I know it is the MLB and that scenario would probably never have happened but to me, if Bradley wants to talk like he has always talked he got to be able to take it. It's adults talking to adults. Can't take it, keep your mouth shut to begin with!!

Bradley's a punk. No Sympathy from me.
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