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Is blocking SPs unethical/illegal in roto?

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Re: Is blocking SPs unethical/illegal in roto?

Postby Old_Style » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:45 pm

J35J wrote:
Snakes Gould wrote:yeah i was going to mention the same rule (not espn, yahoo tho) but i think its one of the rules that is constantly broken. i mean, if you know someone in your league is talking trade with another owner and you 1 up him and get the deal done, arent you impeding him? how about picking a player that they were going to pick up or picking up their closer's new replacement? arent you impeding them in that way too. i think the fact that espn specifically mentions no cycling if you dont use them though sorta makes it against the rules but i know alot of leagues dont pay attention to them.


Yeah, its one of those rules where there is nothing out there that will prevent you from doing it unless someone emails ESPN/YAHOO and lets them know....which usually doesn't happen.

It's bush either way...I would feel "dirty" if I had to do that to win. With that said, I'll never have to worry about it because I won't play in a league unless there is a max moves limit to begin with.


Same here. That's probably the best way to stop it as well.
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Re: Is blocking SPs unethical/illegal in roto?

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:49 pm

There's nothing unethical about that. Unless there is a specific rule in your league against it, it is fine.
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Re: Is blocking SPs unethical/illegal in roto?

Postby Bwanna » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:57 pm

deutschland wrote:I have enjoyed a comfortable lead down the stretch in my 12 team mixed roto $$$ league . The current 2nd place team is way way behind in games started (limit of 180, ESPN league). I am approaching the starts limit, but not there yet. The 2nd place team has been starting about 7 pitchers per day in order to make up ground in categories like wins and K's and will presumably continue do so for the final week of the season to make a run at me. Noticing this, and having calculated his possible improvement in the standings, I have been picking up certain projected starters for the next day's games in order to prevent him from benefitting from their performances, because I think there is a chance he can catch me and win the league. For the most part, I have not been activating those starters that I have picked up, dropping them the next day and picking up new ones. I do not want to cheat to win my league. ESPN's rules do not appear to touch on this issue. Is this unethical? Is it illegal?

Tavish wrote:Its fairly blatant cheating. From the ESPN fantasy baseball rules:

C: Impeding other owners

Certain transactions made solely to impede other owners are not allowed. In particular, cycling through players in free agency to put them on waivers and make them unavailable to other teams in your league is strictly prohibited and is grounds for expulsion from the game. Please see the waivers and free agency section of the rules for more information.



Yahoo has a similar sportsmanship clause.


If the rules don't prevent or prohibit it, then there's no problem. In this case, the rules prohibit it, but system doesn't prevent it. So, if your league mates always respect the rules, and your conscience doesn't allow you to break the rules even if you they aren't enforced by the commish or by the system, then don't do it.

But, in my personal opinion making rules against this sort of thing is ridiculous. Why not make a rule saying, you shouldn't have any players on your bench for the sole purpose of keeping your opponents from having them? E.g., I have plenty of steals, and I have some extra steals on my bench. Following the spirit of these rules, if I can't trade them, I should drop them in order to allow my opponents to pick them up and use them. Give me a break.

The other team could pick up starters a day in advance of whenever you are picking them up, to prevent you from blocking him. Real-life leagues (which we're trying to mimic, aren't we?) do this stuff. It's one reason many teams don't trade to teams in their division. It's all about winning in real-life, why shouldn't it be the same in fantasy-life?

Having a limit on moves is a really good thing, but not solely to prevent this sort of thing -- if I have enough moves left at the end of the season, and Garret Anderson is available on the wire and starts raking... and I don't need HRs but my closest competition could gain points by picking him up... you think I'm gonna let him sit there? And, I seriously doubt anyone who commented on this thread would either.
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Re: Is blocking SPs unethical/illegal in roto?

Postby Tavish » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:48 pm

Bwanna wrote:But, in my personal opinion making rules against this sort of thing is ridiculous. Why not make a rule saying, you shouldn't have any players on your bench for the sole purpose of keeping your opponents from having them? E.g., I have plenty of steals, and I have some extra steals on my bench. Following the spirit of these rules, if I can't trade them, I should drop them in order to allow my opponents to pick them up and use them. Give me a break.

Those examples are stretching it pretty far to try and justify churning. The rule is in place to stop people from churning which is nothing less than an attempt to not let others play the game. Churning is not being a better or smarter manager than anyone else, it is taking advantage of a coding design paradox in daily leagues.

Its not any different than, in systems where dropped players go directly to the Wire, if I see your 2B get hurt and immediately pick up and drop every 2B in the league. Now you can wait a couple days to fill in your replacement and either A)spend your Waiver spot to pick up a replacement B) be fast enough at midnight to get a 2B before I churn again or C) never start another 2B until your guy gets healthy.
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Re: Is blocking SPs unethical/illegal in roto?

Postby J35J » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:59 pm

Tavish wrote:
Bwanna wrote:But, in my personal opinion making rules against this sort of thing is ridiculous. Why not make a rule saying, you shouldn't have any players on your bench for the sole purpose of keeping your opponents from having them? E.g., I have plenty of steals, and I have some extra steals on my bench. Following the spirit of these rules, if I can't trade them, I should drop them in order to allow my opponents to pick them up and use them. Give me a break.

Those examples are stretching it pretty far to try and justify churning. The rule is in place to stop people from churning which is nothing less than an attempt to not let others play the game. Churning is not being a better or smarter manager than anyone else, it is taking advantage of a coding design paradox in daily leagues.

Its not any different than, in systems where dropped players go directly to the Wire, if I see your 2B get hurt and immediately pick up and drop every 2B in the league. Now you can wait a couple days to fill in your replacement and either A)spend your Waiver spot to pick up a replacement B) be fast enough at midnight to get a 2B before I churn again or C) never start another 2B until your guy gets healthy.


Exactly!
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Re: Is blocking SPs unethical/illegal in roto?

Postby noseeum » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:38 pm

Tavish wrote:
Bwanna wrote:But, in my personal opinion making rules against this sort of thing is ridiculous. Why not make a rule saying, you shouldn't have any players on your bench for the sole purpose of keeping your opponents from having them? E.g., I have plenty of steals, and I have some extra steals on my bench. Following the spirit of these rules, if I can't trade them, I should drop them in order to allow my opponents to pick them up and use them. Give me a break.

Those examples are stretching it pretty far to try and justify churning. The rule is in place to stop people from churning which is nothing less than an attempt to not let others play the game. Churning is not being a better or smarter manager than anyone else, it is taking advantage of a coding design paradox in daily leagues.

Its not any different than, in systems where dropped players go directly to the Wire, if I see your 2B get hurt and immediately pick up and drop every 2B in the league. Now you can wait a couple days to fill in your replacement and either A)spend your Waiver spot to pick up a replacement B) be fast enough at midnight to get a 2B before I churn again or C) never start another 2B until your guy gets healthy.


I think your example is what ESPN's rule is referring to. Adding a guy and immediately dropping him just to reset a waiver clock is total bush league. But adding him and taking up one of your roster spots is a valid counter strategy to the streaming the opponent is doing. The other guy is adding and dropping every day and holding the new guys for only one day. Why can't the first place team do the same?

I don't get how anyone can say it's perfectly ethical for the second place team to add and drop pitchers every single day to try to catch the first place guy, and yet if the first place guy attempts to put the kibosh on that strategy it's bush league? It's just like when the yankees put in a waiver claim after the deadline to not let the Sox have a chance at signing a player that could help them. It's a valid counter to your opponent's strategy.
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Re: Is blocking SPs unethical/illegal in roto?

Postby akula » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:59 am

I am sorry mate. the rule is pretty clear that what you are doing is illegal..When you pick up the SPs, do you intend to use them? no, so you violated the rules. good luck not getting reported and expelled.
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Re: Is blocking SPs unethical/illegal in roto?

Postby deutschland » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:33 am

akula wrote:I am sorry mate. the rule is pretty clear that what you are doing is illegal..When you pick up the SPs, do you intend to use them? no, so you violated the rules. good luck not getting reported and expelled.


I also want to expand on something I didn't make clear in my original post. I currently have 10 starts remaining, so I am not over the limit and only picking up starters to block my opponent. Once the first game of the day starts our rosters lock and we can start picking up players for the next day. I have been adding several projected starters at that point and making my decisions the next morning on who to start. Admittedly I know I am not going to start all of them. I usually am choosing to activate 1 or 2, but sometimes none after having time to do more research on the upcoming day's games and matchups. For example, on Monday I picked up Robertson, Bush and Pelfrey, all slated to start Tuesday, but only ended up starting Robertson. I didn't make my final decision until this morning, even though I picked up all 3 guys yesterday afternoon. Does this make difference for those who regard my tactic as foul play?

Some posts have also touched on the issue that teams that have already reached their GS limit are still holding on to their starters so that other owners can't pick them up. Do you, the same people with this opinion, consider that blocking and therefore unethical?
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Re: Is blocking SPs unethical/illegal in roto?

Postby Mayor Daley » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:11 am

Churning is weak. Weaker than weak, it's bush league.
Tht's why most leagues have rules against it.
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Re: Is blocking SPs unethical/illegal in roto?

Postby Whisp » Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:12 am

if you're picking them up in case you MIGHT use them, that's fine.

and that's why the rule can never really be enforced.
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