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starter v closer

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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:30 pm

Fumbler wrote:
Come on guys.........I can't believe that you would say 4-5 closers. I get this argument everytime, and I just don't understand it. Besides the top 4-5 closers, all of the other guys are essentially crapshoots, who add VERY LITTLE to your overall ERA/WHIP/K's given the insignificant amount of innings they pitch.


That's why i always draft at least two top-tier closers. Fill up with some good offensive players. Get two more above average closers and i'm set.


So you draft 2 top tier closers because they "add VERY LITTLE to your overall ERA/WHIP/K's given the insignificant amount of innings they pitched"? :-?

You're jumpin for those 1 cat guys while your competition is getting as many 4 and 5 cat guys as possible?

You might want to rethink that logic.
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Postby J35J » Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:45 pm

I think it also depends on a H2H league or a ROTO league. In a H2H league I like to have a few Closers 3-4 but in a ROTO leauge it would be more important to get the 4 cat players
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Postby Fumbler » Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:52 pm

Exactly. I'm talking about a H2H strategy.

I grab the best offense. So i end up winning the majority of those categories. Then with my many closers i always win saves, era, and whip. They're not one category guys, i don't know where you're getting that from. The best closers always end up with the best ERA's and WHIP's. That would be three categories, not one, thank you very much. ;-D

It's not even funny how easy it is to dominate with that strategy. There are plenty of starters still available late that can fill in the gaps...let alone all the starters that you can jump on during the season on waivers.

*edit* I do take starters, however, if i'm playing Roto.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:07 pm

Fumbler my man, listen to me and the majority of people around here. Closers dont pitch enough innings to make a large contribution in those catagories. Sure the top closers have incredible ERAs and WHIPs, but because its only for 1 inning at a time, the overall affect on your weekly (or yearly) stats is minimal, thus making them essentially one catagory guys.

You can also take this same advice in H2H. Even in H2H you dont rotate in offensive players all that often, so you are still left with a bunch of Ps on your bench - whether its RP or SP. Now, for example's sake lets assume a standard 21 man roster with 9 starting offensive spots, then standard pitching positions (2SP, 2RP, 3 P). That leaves 5 bench spots. One gets taken as your multiple position utility, leaving 4 spots. Im saying use your 11 P spots like this: SP1,SP2,SP3,SP4,SP5,SP6,RP1,RP2,RP3,RP4,RP5. You still can rotate 6 SPs in every week, while maintaining 5 closers in yolur everyday lineup.

Just an idea to think about.

If its a points league, all the above advice goes out the window.
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Postby Fumbler » Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:28 pm

Cornbread, what are you not understanding?

That's all i need is 1 inning at a time...as long as i meet my innings pitched requirement i'm fine. Heck, i probably don't even need a single starter some weeks.

I understand the effect is minimal, but it doesn't matter because if their ERA's and WHIP's are low already AND i meet my innings pitched requirement then that effect means nothing. The only time i would be hurt by this is if one of my closers got rocked in one game. But when you grab the best, you don't have to worry about this much. ;-D

But if i want to win Saves, WHIP, and ERA in any given week usually all i need is one starter to meet my inning pitched requirement. I can basically punt wins and k's in a given week.

In a good week i'm gonna beat you 8-2 in a 5x5 Head-to-Head. On average i'm gonna beat you 6-4 every time. Load up all the starters you want to go against me...you can have wins and k's. But more than likely your ERA and WHIP are going to be MUCH higher than mine after the week is done. And saves is a given every week for me.

Therefore you've lost 3 of the 5 pitching categories already. Now i'll i need to do is win 2 of the 5 hitting just for a tie. And my offense if going to be very good because i'm not wasting my picks on starters.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:35 pm

nevermind. your right. everyone else is wrong.
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Postby Fumbler » Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:36 pm

I think some of the confusion comes in by you assuming i'm going to play alot of my starting pitchers during the week.

I'm not. I'm mostly gonna pick and choose the best matchups i want.

Yeah, if i used 5 starters a day my closers ERA and WHIP numbers would be insignificant because of the low innings they pitch.

But since i'm using minimal starting pitchers looking for the best matchups my ERA and WHIP will stay low.
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Postby GSes » Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:37 pm

Fumbler wrote:I think some of the confusion comes in by you assuming i'm going to play alot of my starting pitchers during the week.

I'm not. I'm mostly gonna pick and choose the best matchups i want.

Yeah, if i used 5 starters a day my closers ERA and WHIP numbers would be insignificant because of the low innings they pitch.

But since i'm using minimal starting pitchers looking for the best matchups my ERA and WHIP will stay low.


This is why Roto is the superior fantasy baseball game.

Boo H2H :-t

But I still wil play 1 H2H league lol
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Postby Fumbler » Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:41 pm

Whoa, chill out bud.

I never said this was the only strategy. I apologize if you took it that way.

You attacked my strategy. I defended myself trying to explain why i think this works best.

I'm not forcing anyone to use this strategy.

Part of the fun is seeing how the different strategies play out. :-)
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:53 pm

Fumbler wrote:Whoa, chill out bud.

I never said this was the only strategy. I apologize if you took it that way.

You attacked my strategy. I defended myself trying to explain why i think this works best.

I'm not forcing anyone to use this strategy.

Part of the fun is seeing how the different strategies play out. :-)


Rather than defending your strategy, another way of reacting could have been for you to taking the advice and applying it.

The top closers are completely overrated by most people, because in truth they only give major support in one catagory. You have more or less admitted that the only way they can help in a big way in ERA and WHIP is if you literally punt the other catagories and hope you get the minimum IP.

I am trying to help people here by giving them sound advice.
You are trying to explain how wasting 2 top picks on closers will lock up your pitching catagories every week.

Give me a break.
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