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Benoit not Francisco Gets the Win

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Benoit not Francisco Gets the Win

Postby nettles3Ball-star » Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:59 am

Saturday night Francisco got the last out of the top of the 7th inning in a tie game. He threw a third of an inning. The following 1/2 inning, the bottom of the 7th, the Rangers score 2 to take the lead. Benoit pitches the 8th gives up none and is credited with the win, not a hold. Was choosing a winner at the discretion of the official scorer in this situation?
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Re: Benoit not Francisco Gets the Win

Postby joshyboy72 » Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:15 am

I don't understand why Francisco didn't get the win. Maybe it's one of those new rule changes that came about this year, like you have to pitch more than a third of an inning to get a win, but that just seems stupid. I always thought it's the pitcher that was still "in the game" when the run was scored, which was Francisco in this case. I don't know. :-?
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Re: Benoit not Francisco Gets the Win

Postby raiders_umpire » Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:31 am

Rule 10.17(b) Comment: It is the intent of Rule 10.17(b) that a relief pitcher pitch at least one complete inning or pitch when a crucial out is made, within the context of the game (including the score), in order to be credited as the winning pitcher. If the first relief pitcher pitches effectively, the official scorer should not presumptively credit that pitcher with the win, because the rule requires that the win be credited to the pitcher who was the most effective, and a subsequent relief pitcher may have been most effective. The official scorer, in determining which relief pitcher was the most effective, should consider the number of runs, earned runs and base runners given up by each relief pitcher and the context of the game at the time of each relief pitcher’s appearance. If two or more relief pitchers were similarly effective, the official scorer should give the presumption to the earlier pitcher as the winning pitcher.
(c) The official scorer shall not credit as the winning pitcher a relief pitcher who is ineffective in a brief appearance, when at least one succeeding relief pitcher pitches effectively in helping his team maintain its lead. In such a case, the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the succeeding relief pitcher who was most effective, in the judgment of the official scorer.
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Re: Benoit not Francisco Gets the Win

Postby raiders_umpire » Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:35 am

Basically Francisco didn't get the win because he pitched ineffective to the one batter he faced. He came into the game top of the 7th with runners on first and second with two outs. Francisco gave up a hit to Johjima, but luckily for the Rangers Guillen was thrown out at home for the 3rd out. Francisco actually retired nobody, as his defense behind made the play to get Guillen out. Since Francisco was "ineffective" in the score keepers mind, Benoit got the win for throwing a perfect 8th inning.
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Re: Benoit not Francisco Gets the Win

Postby JTWood » Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:52 am

raiders_umpire wrote:Basically Francisco didn't get the win because he pitched ineffective to the one batter he faced. He came into the game top of the 7th with runners on first and second with two outs. Francisco gave up a hit to Johjima, but luckily for the Rangers Guillen was thrown out at home for the 3rd out. Francisco actually retired nobody, as his defense behind made the play to get Guillen out. Since Francisco was "ineffective" in the score keepers mind, Benoit got the win for throwing a perfect 8th inning.

Nice to see them applying some thought to the situation instead of just going with the standard template.

;-D
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Re: Benoit not Francisco Gets the Win

Postby nettles3Ball-star » Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:58 am

raiders_umpire wrote:Basically Francisco didn't get the win because he pitched ineffective to the one batter he faced. He came into the game top of the 7th with runners on first and second with two outs. Francisco gave up a hit to Johjima, but luckily for the Rangers Guillen was thrown out at home for the 3rd out. Francisco actually retired nobody, as his defense behind made the play to get Guillen out. Since Francisco was "ineffective" in the score keepers mind, Benoit got the win for throwing a perfect 8th inning.


Clear explanation. Thank you. On top of it all Benoit got the hold too. I remember reading in Yahoo's rules long ago that this was possible. I'm not sure I remember it happening, though.
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Re: Benoit not Francisco Gets the Win

Postby rainman23 » Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:12 am

That's a little bit of consolation for those owners who picked up Benoit in the expectation of snagging a few saves. At least for those in Holds leagues. Not often the same player can get a Win along with a Hold or a Save.
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Re: Benoit not Francisco Gets the Win

Postby kugino » Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:30 pm

raiders_umpire wrote:Rule 10.17(b) Comment: It is the intent of Rule 10.17(b) that a relief pitcher pitch at least one complete inning or pitch when a crucial out is made, within the context of the game (including the score), in order to be credited as the winning pitcher. If the first relief pitcher pitches effectively, the official scorer should not presumptively credit that pitcher with the win, because the rule requires that the win be credited to the pitcher who was the most effective, and a subsequent relief pitcher may have been most effective. The official scorer, in determining which relief pitcher was the most effective, should consider the number of runs, earned runs and base runners given up by each relief pitcher and the context of the game at the time of each relief pitcher’s appearance. If two or more relief pitchers were similarly effective, the official scorer should give the presumption to the earlier pitcher as the winning pitcher.
(c) The official scorer shall not credit as the winning pitcher a relief pitcher who is ineffective in a brief appearance, when at least one succeeding relief pitcher pitches effectively in helping his team maintain its lead. In such a case, the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the succeeding relief pitcher who was most effective, in the judgment of the official scorer.

wow, learn something new every day. thanks for the info...i was surprised to wake up and see benoit with a W...good for me!
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Re: Benoit not Francisco Gets the Win

Postby Field » Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:00 pm

8-o .

Interesting, did not know that.
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Re: Benoit not Francisco Gets the Win

Postby ScarletP » Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:13 pm

A few years back Brad Lidge was credited with a win without even throwing a pitch. He came into a tie game with 2 outs and a runner on 1st. Before throwing a pitch he picked off the runner. The Astros scored runs in the next inning and he got the win.
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