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What's called a quality start?

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Re: What's called a quality start?

Postby sportsguy138 » Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:51 pm

StlSluggers wrote:I would go with QS over W anyway just because QS is a better indicator of a pitcher's performance than the W, which is extraordinarily team-dependent.


I would love this in my dynasty league where I have Matt Cain. :-[

[quote="J35J"]Actually I believe it is 3 runs...not 3 earned runs.

If a guy goes 6 IP with 5 runs scored but only 3 earned runs I don't think that is a quality start. I had originally thought it was as well but I thought I heard on Royals postgame that they mentioned it being 3 runs period, not just 3 earned runs.

correct me if I'm wrong.... :-? I'll go see if I can find the definate definition...[/quote]

It's definitely 3 ER. :-D
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Re: What's called a quality start?

Postby rib217 » Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:26 pm

Depending on your league size wouldnt getting quality starts be pretty easy?? a 4.5 ERA in even a 12 team league wouldnt be too challenging to find at least 4 guys a team that could do that almost every outing don't you think?
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Re: What's called a quality start?

Postby StlSluggers » Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:32 pm

rib217 wrote:Depending on your league size wouldnt getting quality starts be pretty easy?? a 4.5 ERA in even a 12 team league wouldnt be too challenging to find at least 4 guys a team that could do that almost every outing don't you think?

It's not about how easy they are to get. It's about getting more than your opponents get.

Using your thinking, R/RBI are no good because it wouldn't be hard to find a guy that can score a run or drive in a batter nearly every game.
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Re: What's called a quality start?

Postby rib217 » Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:05 pm

StlSluggers wrote:
rib217 wrote:Depending on your league size wouldnt getting quality starts be pretty easy?? a 4.5 ERA in even a 12 team league wouldnt be too challenging to find at least 4 guys a team that could do that almost every outing don't you think?

It's not about how easy they are to get. It's about getting more than your opponents get.

Using your thinking, R/RBI are no good because it wouldn't be hard to find a guy that can score a run or drive in a batter nearly every game.



I love how some people get so extremely defensive and go into immediate attack mode when someone posts anything other than their opinion.

While i think the idea of getting rid of the Win category in place of the QS category is a good one i am just thinking in most leagues; the size is not big enough to make QS a good category. Bronson Arroyo has 16 QS out of 24 this year I believe. Chris Young has 15 QS out of 21 this year i believe. That is a huge range of the quality of pitcher there but right about the same Quality starts meaning that in leagues of like 10-12 everyone will have 4-5 guys all with about the same quality starts considering Arroyo is WW material in alot of leagues making it less likely that the skilled managers are winning the category and more likely that the category is just based more on luck i think. In a bigger league i think the Quality Start would be awesome to use but in smaller leagues i just think everyone will be about the same hoping for a string of good luck there way.
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Re: What's called a quality start?

Postby StlSluggers » Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:57 pm

rib217 wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:
rib217 wrote:Depending on your league size wouldnt getting quality starts be pretty easy?? a 4.5 ERA in even a 12 team league wouldnt be too challenging to find at least 4 guys a team that could do that almost every outing don't you think?

It's not about how easy they are to get. It's about getting more than your opponents get.

Using your thinking, R/RBI are no good because it wouldn't be hard to find a guy that can score a run or drive in a batter nearly every game.



I love how some people get so extremely defensive and go into immediate attack mode when someone posts anything other than their opinion.

While i think the idea of getting rid of the Win category in place of the QS category is a good one i am just thinking in most leagues; the size is not big enough to make QS a good category. Bronson Arroyo has 16 QS out of 24 this year I believe. Chris Young has 15 QS out of 21 this year i believe. That is a huge range of the quality of pitcher there but right about the same Quality starts meaning that in leagues of like 10-12 everyone will have 4-5 guys all with about the same quality starts considering Arroyo is WW material in alot of leagues making it less likely that the skilled managers are winning the category and more likely that the category is just based more on luck i think. In a bigger league i think the Quality Start would be awesome to use but in smaller leagues i just think everyone will be about the same hoping for a string of good luck there way.

I love how some people get so extremely defensive and go into immediate attack mode when someone posts anything other than their opinion. ;-7

Anyway, I don't know where you get off thinking I'm attacking you. I'm making a counterpoint. That's how debate works.
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Re: What's called a quality start?

Postby StlSluggers » Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:14 pm

Your Arroyo/Young comparison is flawed because Young blows Arroyo away in ERA & WHIP. Whether a league was using Ws or QS wouldn't factor into the mind of a rational owner because that one category would be trumped by Young's dominance in two others (with a slight edge even in Ks).

How about comparing Josh Beckett and Javier Vazquez? As of Monday, here's how they compare to each other:

Beckett: 3.24 ERA, 1.12 WHIP, 0.95 K/9
Vazquez: 3.67 ERA, 1.11 WHIP, 0.90 K/9

Slight edge to Beckett, but pretty similar, right? Beckett has 15 wins and Vazquez has 10 wins. If this is 5x5, Beckett has a big advantage because of the team he plays on, not because of his skill set.

Now take a look at their QS numbers: Beckett has 15, Vazquez has 14.

In my league, which uses QS instead of W, Beckett is literally ranked one spot higher than Vazquez on the SP chart. I imagine that would not be the case in standard 5x5.
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Re: What's called a quality start?

Postby Nerfherders » Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:26 pm

A quality start is a quality start. You cant change it and call it the same thing. It's an official statistic.

If you do super quality starts or whatever you want to call it (7IP/3ER) there arent going to be very many of those. And in my experience the more rare the feat, the closer all the numbers are to eachother. Besides that, 6/3 is the MINIMUM a quality start can be. I can just about guarantee that the combined ERA of any pitcher's quality starts is going to be less than 3.00. ERA's of 4.5+ happen because pitcher's throw too many 5/6 outings.
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Re: What's called a quality start?

Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:39 pm

Everybody bemoans the fact that you can get the minimum quality starty with 6 IP/3 ER, but in reality that line is very rare. The average ERA in a quality start, I believe, is actually a little lower than 2 (I want to say its 1.91 or somewhere around there). So in reality, the quality start does promote great starts, and good pitchers will have more quality starts than bad pitchers. Furthermore, in real baseball, 6 IP with 3 ER allowed is actually a good start. It keeps the team in the game and allows the better pitchers in the bullpen to finish the game....
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