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P batting 8th?

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P batting 8th?

Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:17 pm

Has anybody noticed that the Cardinals have been batting all their SPs 8th recently? While it doesn't really mean much in terms of fantasy, I don't understand the point of this... if teams want to intentionally walk the #8 man to get to the P, wouldn't you want the pitcher to at least turn the lineup over. And if the pitcher is going to bunt, wouldn't you rather have the leadoff man up instead of the #9 hitter with a runner in scoring position....?
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Re: P batting 8th?

Postby RyanK » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:26 pm

The only reasoning i can see for this is that it can help to put runners on for the top of the order, if you have your 7-8-9 hitters coming up then the leadoff man gets on, pitcher bunts him over, and the #9 hitter is a viable bat that can get on base and you bring up the top of the order, you also can have some speed infront of the lead off man
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Re: P batting 8th?

Postby pokerplaya » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:27 pm

Not the first time...LaRussa used to do this a few years ago regularly...
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Re: P batting 8th?

Postby Noggy » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:28 pm

The idea behind it is to have a "real" batter hitting 9th, thus increasing the odds of guys being on base for the middle of the lineup to drive in. Tony La Russa has done this a lot before back when he had Mark McGwire.
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Re: P batting 8th?

Postby RynMan » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:32 pm

Yeah, La Russa has done this in the past I'm pretty sure. I'm not sure that I really like it. I think over the course of the season, you would want the number of times your pitcher has an at-bat, to be the absolute minimum. Therefore hit them at the bottom. Also, if the pitcher comes up with 2 outs, he is almost always an automatic out - therefore it would be good to have the leadoff guy up to start the next inning. I have noticed that when he does this, he usually has a lead-off type hitter in the 9 spot. It's almost as if he is restarting the order a spot early (or late depending on how you look at it).

I'd just rather hit the pitcher at the end, and minimize his number of plate appearances over the course of the season.
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Re: P batting 8th?

Postby RynMan » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:36 pm

Noggy wrote:The idea behind it is to have a "real" batter hitting 9th, thus increasing the odds of guys being on base for the middle of the lineup to drive in. Tony La Russa has done this a lot before back when he had Mark McGwire.


Then why not just slot that guy in at the top of the order and slide everyone down a spot? It's doing exactly the same thing, only:

a) you get to put this plan into attack straight away in the first inning
b) this part of the order will theoretically have more times at the plate over the course of the season (and mathemtically, in one game)
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Re: P batting 8th?

Postby Noggy » Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:49 am

RynMan wrote:Then why not just slot that guy in at the top of the order and slide everyone down a spot? It's doing exactly the same thing, only:

a) you get to put this plan into attack straight away in the first inning
b) this part of the order will theoretically have more times at the plate over the course of the season (and mathemtically, in one game)


Because it makes no sense to give the worst hitter on the team (sans the pitcher) up to 162 plate appearances more than he would get batting 9th over the course of the season.
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Re: P batting 8th?

Postby RynMan » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:22 am

Noggy wrote:
RynMan wrote:Then why not just slot that guy in at the top of the order and slide everyone down a spot? It's doing exactly the same thing, only:

a) you get to put this plan into attack straight away in the first inning
b) this part of the order will theoretically have more times at the plate over the course of the season (and mathemtically, in one game)


Because it makes no sense to give the worst hitter on the team (sans the pitcher) up to 162 plate appearances more than he would get batting 9th over the course of the season.


I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. I was asking why you wouldn't just use the guy that you are going to hit 9th behind the pitcher, in the leadoff or number 2 spot.
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Re: P batting 8th?

Postby jealousblues » Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:08 am

i dont have the stats (check http://www.vivaelbirdos.com) but last time Tony did this the team actually hit better.

what ive heard proposed (and what would really cause a stir) is to bat your team just in straight OBP or OPS
that would be at least interesting.


I think on Tonys teams he likes to use a power guy in the number two spot, so in theory when you go around the lineup it gives you a defacto lead off guy then the real lead off guy...then your power hitters.

It should also be noted that some of our pitcher are probibly hitting better than Adam Kennedy anyway...
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Re: P batting 8th?

Postby San D » Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:29 am

I don't think it's such a bad play in some cases. Two AB's from a pitcher and two AB's from a pinch hitter may actually be better than a real bad hitter who would be slotted number nine. So, it could be better to give the pitcher/pinch hitter the more plate appearances that batting 8th gives you over the course of the season. On the other hand, if a team is pitching his #1 or #2 starter, it would make more sense to bat the pitcher ninth, since you are counting on the pitcher going deep into the game and receiving more than two at bats. :-?
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