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Whip & Era ?

Postby soylent green » Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:02 pm

This spring will be my first roto draft. It is easy for me to see what effect having A. Rod will have on my Hr totals; but what eaffect will having E. Gagne or Pedro have on my era and whip. Espically, Gagne who will pitch no more than 70 to 80 innings.
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ERA & WHIP

Postby Guest » Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:14 pm

You make a very profound comment if you think about it! A SP pitches probably at least twice as many innings as a closer. So obviously for those categories a SP is twice as valuable. Many fantasy players overvalue closers IMO.
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Re: Whip & Era ?

Postby swarmee » Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:16 pm

soylent green wrote:This spring will be my first roto draft. It is easy for me to see what effect having A. Rod will have on my Hr totals; but what eaffect will having E. Gagne or Pedro have on my era and whip. Espically, Gagne who will pitch no more than 70 to 80 innings.

Well, I ran the http://www.usatoday.com projections on this using ONLY whip and era for the pitching categories and came up with these guys as the Top20 pitchers for WHIP/ERA in terms of helping your team:
P Pedro Martinez Bos 195.0 2.12 1.021 = $55.84
P Eric Gagne LA 80.0 1.91 0.875 = $39.86
P Billy Wagner Phi 80.0 2.25 0.938 = $33.25
P John Smoltz Atl 70.0 1.93 0.943 = $33.19
P Keith Foulke Bos 73.0 2.47 0.945 = $29.10
P Mark Prior ChN 220.0 2.78 1.132 = $27.48
P Octavio Dotel Hou 85.0 2.65 1.012 = $26.25
P Mariano Rivera NYA 70.0 2.19 1.071 = $25.09
P Tim Hudson Oak 235.0 2.91 1.140 = $23.43
P Curt Schilling Bos 225.0 3.20 1.084 = $23.07
P Guillermo Mota LA 95.0 2.65 1.095 = $22.70
P Francisco Rodriguez Ana 80.0 2.81 1.050 = $21.80
P Jason Schmidt SF 190.0 2.98 1.126 = $21.32
P LaTroy Hawkins ChN 75.0 2.40 1.147 = $20.33
P Paul Quantrill NYA 75.0 2.40 1.160 = $19.68
P Damaso Marte ChA 75.0 2.40 1.160 = $19.68
P Shigetoshi Hasegawa Sea 75.0 2.40 1.173 = $19.03
P Arthur Rhodes Oak 65.0 3.05 1.046 = $18.30
P Rod Beck SD 60.0 2.55 1.133 = $18.14
P Jose Valverde Ari 60.0 2.55 1.133 = $18.14

As you can see, these closers and middle relievers can do as much or more for your team in WHIP and ERA as these guys which are farther down the list: Oswalt, R Johnson, Brown, and Halladay. Surprising, isn't it?
Last edited by swarmee on Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ERA & WHIP

Postby Sox FANatic001 » Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:20 pm

Guest wrote:You make a very profound comment if you think about it! A SP pitches probably at least twice as many innings as a closer. So obviously for those categories a SP is twice as valuable. Many fantasy players overvalue closers IMO.


i dont thnk closers are overvalued, who else is gonna get you saves? seriously though, RP's dont have nearly as much impact on WHIP and ERA as starters do. Nonetrheless, still look for relivers with low ERAs WHIPs. I like to get one on my tyeam (a hawkins.lidge type) to give those #s a boost down
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USA Projections

Postby Guest » Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:26 pm

Don't blindly believe what these sources value the players. Run the figures for yourself. 200 innings of 3.00 ERA & 1.20 WHIP equals 100 innings of 1.50 ERA & 1.10 WHIP. Think about it!
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Re: Whip & Era ?

Postby kentx12 » Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:32 pm

swarmee wrote:
soylent green wrote:This spring will be my first roto draft. It is easy for me to see what effect having A. Rod will have on my Hr totals; but what eaffect will having E. Gagne or Pedro have on my era and whip. Espically, Gagne who will pitch no more than 70 to 80 innings.

Well, I ran the http://www.usatoday.com projections on this using ONLY whip and era for the pitching categories and came up with these guys as the Top20 pitchers for WHIP/ERA in terms of helping your team:
P Pedro Martinez Bos 195.0 2.12 1.021 = $55.84
P Eric Gagne LA 80.0 1.91 0.875 = $39.86
P Billy Wagner Phi 80.0 2.25 0.938 = $33.25
P John Smoltz Atl 70.0 1.93 0.943 = $33.19
P Keith Foulke Bos 73.0 2.47 0.945 = $29.10
P Mark Prior ChN 220.0 2.78 1.132 = $27.48
P Octavio Dotel Hou 85.0 2.65 1.012 = $26.25
P Mariano Rivera NYA 70.0 2.19 1.071 = $25.09
P Tim Hudson Oak 235.0 2.91 1.140 = $23.43
P Curt Schilling Bos 225.0 3.20 1.084 = $23.07
P Guillermo Mota LA 95.0 2.65 1.095 = $22.70
P Francisco Rodriguez Ana 80.0 2.81 1.050 = $21.80
P Jason Schmidt SF 190.0 2.98 1.126 = $21.32
P LaTroy Hawkins ChN 75.0 2.40 1.147 = $20.33
P Paul Quantrill NYA 75.0 2.40 1.160 = $19.68
P Damaso Marte ChA 75.0 2.40 1.160 = $19.68
P Shigetoshi Hasegawa Sea 75.0 2.40 1.173 = $19.03
P Arthur Rhodes Oak 65.0 3.05 1.046 = $18.30
P Rod Beck SD 60.0 2.55 1.133 = $18.14
P Jose Valverde Ari 60.0 2.55 1.133 = $18.14

As you can see, these closers and middle relievers can do as much or more for your team in WHIP and ERA as these guys which are farther down the list: Oswalt, R Johnson, Brown, and Halladay. Surprising, isn't it?



Great list swarmee. That is food for thought.
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Re: USA Projections

Postby swarmee » Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:34 pm

Guest wrote:Don't blindly believe what these sources value the players. Run the figures for yourself. 200 innings of 3.00 ERA & 1.20 WHIP equals 100 innings of 1.50 ERA & 1.10 WHIP. Think about it!

I generally agree. I like to use them as an illustration. But this shows what one source values IP vs. better ratios as. It's not the only source, but it gives a general idea that a solid closer (Gagne, Dotel, Smoltz) can be as valuable in those categories as the stud starting pitchers that throw a lot of innings (Prior, Hudson, Schilling). Where they differ is the counting stats. One will pick up wins and strikeouts, while the other will pick up saves or holds.
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Postby trevisc » Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:59 am

and don't forget about the opposite side of the spectrum. A closer like Jorge Julio or Arthur Rhodes can kill your ERA/Whip if you don't have a good balance of Low ERA/Whip SP
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Postby reiser » Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:28 am

I don't know about having Rhodes on that list, but I do agree with your point. I think closers actually have more of an impact on WHIP/ERA than is generally thought.

Just ask Mesa owners from last year :-B
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Postby Erboes » Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:45 am

reiser wrote:I don't know about having Rhodes on that list, but I do agree with your point. I think closers actually have more of an impact on WHIP/ERA than is generally thought.

Just ask Mesa owners from last year :-B


Or Yan from the year before.

I look at relievers this way, if you are allowed 3 of them, that means in a league with a 1250 inning limit they account for about 1/6 of your total innings. If you can get 3 of them in a mixed league that have ERA's averaging 2.50 and a WHIP of 1.05, it would ease what you need to win those categories out of your starters. Say it will take a 3.50 ERA and a WHIP of 1.20 to win those categories. With relievers with the numbers I had above, it would raise the ERA you'd need to 3.70 and your WHIP to 1.23. That's like having Pedro on your staff with that type of impact. That's the way I view it at least.
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