I hope that last post was sarcastic since it was explained why it's not really 5x5 in many posts earlier....
It is skewed but I don't think there is anyway around it. There aren't many other categories you can add for pitching without making a stat essentially worth double, or adding categories that benefit middle of the road pitchers like IP. The only category that might be able to add a little balance is quality starts which helps out the top tier pitchers. I'm thinking of bringing up adding this category to my league.
Yes, but you have to get 2 different types of pitchers to cover all 5 categories. SP helps you in 4 categories, and I understand that there are very few batters that will contribute significantly in all 5 categories. That being said, most power hitters still chip in a some steals, and most speed guys will chip in a few HRs, whereas SP won't chip in any saves. Closers are usually valued a little more than what they contribute just because there aren't very many of them, and even fewer of them are good. But despite SP helping in the same amount of categories (or more) as most hitters, I still believe there is so many talented SPs that drop really low, SPs on the free agency that get hot, marginal SPs on free agency that you can pitch against teams like KC on the road, and large amounts of inconsistency in even the elite SPs, that I'll take my chances in rounds 1-8 (or more) with hitters (unless someone drops to where I believe I'm getting a really good value).
I hope you're kidding... Alex Rodriguez helps in 5 categories... Johan Santana can only help in 4... Though I think the biggest thing that draws experienced players to draft hitters before pitchers is the consistency. Hitters just tend to be more consistent... sure you can show me plenty of examples of high hitting draft picks faltering, and for this season you probably can't point out as many high draft pick pitchers that faltered, but how many high draft pick pitchers are there?
Though I think the biggest thing that draws experienced players to draft hitters before pitchers is the consistency. Hitters just tend to be more consistent... sure you can show me plenty of examples of high hitting draft picks faltering, and for this season you probably can't point out as many high draft pick pitchers that faltered, but how many high draft pick pitchers are there?
Exactly - the percentage of high drafted pitchers that don't work out is much higher than the percentage of high drafted hitters that don't work out.
As a freak about this sort of thinking , as a test I drafted a team without pitching until the end of the draft. First 15 picks were hitters. - Understand this is a preseason draft. I think I may still have 1 pitcher I drafted and everyone else from WW through season and traded some no-names for a closer.
1. (1) Álex Rodríguez 3B 2. (20) Jimmy Rollins SS 3. (21) Carlos Lee OF 4. (40) Andruw Jones OF 5. (41) Aramis Ramírez 3B 6. (60) Paul Konerko 1B 7. (61) Brian Roberts 2B 8. (80) Michael Cuddyer 1B,OF 9. (81) Robinson Canó 2B 10. (100) Torii Hunter OF 11. (101) Richie Sexson 1B 12. (120) Raúl Ibañez OF 13. (121) Ian Kinsler 2B 14. (140) Eric Byrnes OF 15. (141) Tadahito Iguchi 2B 16. (160) José Valverde RP 17. (161) Iván Rodríguez C,1B 18. (180) David Weathers RP 19. (181) Nate Robertson SP 20. (200) Joe Borowski RP 21. (201) Chuck James SP,RP 22. (220) Kenny Rogers SP 23. (221) Freddy García SP 24. (240) Ty Wigginton 1B,2B,3B,OF
Here is my Roster Today Mike Piazza Paul Konerko Brian Roberts Alex Rodríguez Jimmy Rollins Aramis Ramírez J.J. Hardy Carlos Lee Curtis Granderson Eric Byrnes Torii Hunter Ryan Braun
Justin Germano Yovani Gallardo Francisco Rodríguez José Valverde Kevin Gregg Kelvim Escobar Fausto Carmona Ted Lilly Jeremy Guthrie Dave Bush James Shields Orlando Hernández
And the standings for our 5x5 H2H (my team out front) All but one is an active player. 21 Game Lead. 1. Madman's Crazed Dogs 102-49-9 .666 2. GSEX 81-70-9 .534 3. murphs losers 74-72-14 .506 4. azoklndasfn 75-74-11 .503 5. Boss Ballers 77-76-7 .503 6. Arizona Diamondbacks 76-77-7 .497 7. West Coast Ballers 70-79-11 .472 8. Redwood Renegades 67-81-12 .456 9. Cleveland Indians 68-87-5 .441 10. KillerBees 64-89-7 .422
I will test this the opposite way next year and see if I can draft all pitchers first and then win. I think it is better to draft hitters first, however it is more important to stay involved and on top of what is on the WW.
It depends on the depth of the league. If its 10 teams or less, you can definitely go hitting early and often and not be punished. If its a deeper league, quality pitching becomes harder to come across and it needs to be taken a little more seriously.
dooz wrote:It depends on the depth of the league. If its 10 teams or less, you can definitely go hitting early and often and not be punished. If its a deeper league, quality pitching becomes harder to come across and it needs to be taken a little more seriously.
I completely agree.. In a really deep league (or an AL/NL Only) a lot of the high-upside late round guys will be taken in the draft, so you have to try to go out and get an SP or 2....
Sure you have to know more in a deep league, but you still don't really need to go with pitching that much earlier. I am in a 20-team league w/ 10 keepers and 2 rookies kept by each team every year, and this year I drafted Billingsley and Gorzelanny, and got Carmona on the WW. Last year I drafted Chris Young (SD)... and some other guys that helped me lead the league in pitching. The year before I got Chris Capuano and Erik Bedard on the WW. Pitching is there in ANY league, much more so than you can get an early round quality hitter.
I think it is in the draft, and for very good reason. In theory, if you had a consistent pitcher and a consistent hitter situation, it would be more evenly distributed. I mena yea, the best pitchers only help in four cats. But in reality, a lot of the "five category studs" really aren't studs in every cat anyway. People who get credited with being "5 cat" like beltran and sizemore really aren't, as their BA is neutral a lot of times, relative to other players. Howard and Pujols went in the first round this year, and they are four cat for all intents and purposes.
One could argue that five by five is skewed towards hitting, but if you have that transcendent pitching arm, you probably have an incredibly good chance of winning. There are less innings pitched total for your team that ABs, so a pitcher can disproportionately affect 40 percent of your roto score, whereas one singular hitter can't move the numbers in quite the same way.
However, hitters are both more easily predicted, and needed in the aggregate, so you really have to take them early, with a few exceptions. Pitchers aren't as easy to predict, and they get hurt more, so the ROI isn't as good.
That being said, if you have someone like Santana, or a season like Pedro's massive season, that one pitcher, and solid if unspectacular other pitchers can totally rout. So if you strike gold with your pitcher, the case could be made that it almost favors pitching, because you can crush 40 percent of your scoring with much less investment that you could with trying to corner 40 percent of the hitting stats with one pick.
I think its fine as it is really. It's skewed both ways in some respects, and it depends where you want to go. It's not like football where if you buck the RB trend, you need a lot of things to break for you. You do have the shot at building a staff that rules if too many people follow the hitting lead, and in reality either approach still mandates addressing the 5th stat (saves or steals).
I think conventional wisdom is wise as it is, but the conventional draft wisdom doesn't mean that its "skewed" its a risk/reward and ROI type of issue. But I think the rules adequately address both parts.