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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:07 pm

yeyo, can you post the top 15-20 point scorers from last season in your league and their point totals? Thats how we can tell if its a good system.
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Postby yeyo44 » Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:18 pm

No problem


1. Eric Gange 866
2. Roy Halladay 854
3. Jason Schmidt 764
4. Mark Prior 743
5. Keith Foukle 733
6.Esteban Loiza715
7. Tim Hudson 694
8. Alber Puljos 689
9. Billy Wagner 679
10. Gary Shefield 681
11. Javier Vasquez 677
12. Mike Mussina 669
13. Kerry Wood 665
14. Todd Helton 652
15. Pedro Martinez 647
16. John Smoltz 635
17 Arod - 611

As you can see its pitching friendly but alot of fun.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:22 pm

see - There is no way I could endorse that system, yeyo. Its obviously P heavy. As some have stated on this thread, the object when tweaking points for catagories is to balance out offense and pitching. When one is so heavily lopsided it isnt a good system.
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Postby Bukoski77 » Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:51 pm

In starting this let me say that I think roto is the purest form of fantasy baseball however I think H-H is a lot more fun. I want the scoreing to reflect a 50-50 split between the overall importance of pitching and hitting as well in H-H, therefore stud pitchers carry alot more individual importance than hitters.

We start 10 hitters, 1 each position and a DH. 8 pitchers, 5 SP and 3 RP.

Here goes the scoreing format.

Scoring for Batting Categories
2B - Doubles 2 points
3B - Triples 3 points
BB - Walks (Batters) 1 point
CS - Caught Stealing -1 point
CYC - Hitting for the Cycle 12 points
GSHR - Grand Slam Home Runs 3 points
H - Hits 1 point
HR - Home Runs 4 points
KO - Strikeouts (Batter) -.5 points
R - Runs 1 point
RBI - Runs Batted In 1 point
SB - Stolen Bases 2.5 points
SF - Sacrifice Flies .5 points
SH - Sacrifice Hits .5 points

Special Scoring for Starting Pitchers
BBI - Walks Issued (Pitchers) -1 point
CG - Complete Games 3 points
ER - Earned Runs -1 point
HA - Hits Allowed -1 point
INN - Innings 3 points
K - Strikeouts (Pitcher) 1 point
L - Losses -5 points
NH - No-Hitters 15 points
PG - Perfect Games 20 points
QS - Quality Starts 7 points
SO - Shutouts 10 points
W - Wins 10 points

Special Scoring for Relief Pitchers
BBI - Walks Issued (Pitchers) -1 point
BS - Blown Saves -4 points
CG - Complete Games -5 points
ER - Earned Runs -1 point
GS - Games Started (Pitcher) -10 points
HA - Hits Allowed -.5 points
HD - Holds 5 points
INN - Innings 2 points
IRS - Inherited Runners Scored -1 point
K - Strikeouts (Pitcher) 1 point
RL - Relief Losses -4 points
RW - Relief Wins 10 points
S - Saves 13 points


It took us 3 years of tweaking to get it to that format before last year.

Last year, compiled only off players on our active rosters, if they were rideing pine their stats didnt count. All teams combined to score -

Offensively all combined to score 54,235.00 points, an average of 4,519.58 per team.

Pithching wise all teams combined to score 51, 504.9 points, an average of 4,292.75 points per team.


There was less than 1% difference between the points pitchers scored as oppossed to hitters

To further break it down a few individual numbers

Top 3 SP
R Halladay 1014 points
M Prior 919 points
E loaiza 918 points

Top 3 RP
E Gagne 975 points
K Foulke 813 points
B Wagner 765 points

Top 3 Hitters
A Pujos 810 points
G Sheffield 790.5 points
T. Helton 780.5 points

I should also point out that although the top hitters dont out score the top pitchers, the hitters ranking 20-40th school the pitchers ranking 20-40th, continueing all the way down the rankings.
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Postby AuburnTigers » Tue Feb 10, 2004 5:37 pm

Bukoski, I think you may be on to something. At first glance that seems to look dang good. I want to put in all the values and look at the batters and pitchers as a whole, but like you said I bet it comes out even(1% is incredible). I know you said that batter make a come back on pitchers 20-40, I worry a little when Loaiza scores 100+ more than Pujols. Could you post like the top 25 pitchers and top 30 or so batters? It will save me some time putting in all of those values.

Do you happen to have any openings in your leagues, if so I want in. I have some openings in mine if you or your fellow owners want another league.
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Postby wkelly91 » Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:00 pm

Fumbler wrote:Like was mentioned earlier, i would be worried about upsetting the balance if you add the negative points for blown saves and losses.

If you factor those in without decreasing some offensive points then the batters will outscore the pitchers by quite a bit.

Gagne with his perfect season would be about the only guy you could exclude -- he would still get his points. Every other pitcher though would end up with alot less points than the hitters.

Just my 2 cents...


I think that in the basic points leagues H2H pitchers already are over emphasized in their point totals so if you had (-10) for blown saves, and (-5) for losses It would balance better. The last three years I have played the average closers scored more points than good offensive players. When you see closers like Mike Williams racking up over 400 points with and ERA over 4.00 something doesn't seem right. In addition, without penalizing starters with losses you get guys reserving frontline pitchers who start once to start guys like John Lackey twice. If he had (-5) as a deterrant he might think twice about starting him. :-?
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Postby beezer » Wed Feb 11, 2004 12:06 am

Our league has been thinking of doing H2H using points this year. It is tough to choose which "basic" system to use. Here is the default CBS points system.

1B=1
2B=2
3B=3
HR=4
RBI=1
BB=1
K=-1
SB=1
CS=-1

W=10
SO=10
SV=3
BS=-2
INN=.5
ER=-1
K=1
L=-5

This seems like a decent system although I would like to add R=1 for hitters. The only thing I don't like about the pitching numbers is if a closer blows a save and gets a cheap win, he gets 7 points for it, which is more than 2 saves! But, on the other hand, if he blows it and gets the loss, he loses 7 points, which I think is fitting.

AGAIN, this is the default points system for CBS. I just wanted some feedback on this and any suggestions for changes. Thanks. Go Yanks.
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