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Cafe Challenge Controversy?

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Re: Cafe Challenge Controversy?

Postby teddy ballgame » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:56 am

RocketsDWM wrote:Is this an annual league with the same managers? Is it a keeper league? If it is a keeper, then it is even more collusion than before.

I believe it is a redraft league where different people represent different fantasy sites. What it looks like to me is the guy in last place is done and wanted to try and "help" another Cafe representative. I don't want to believe that's what happened, because that's the definition of collusion, but I can't think of another explanation.

I'm interested in what kent has to say, but I don't see how he can justify this.
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Re: Cafe Challenge Controversy?

Postby CBMGreatOne » Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:21 pm

No part of me would ever consider anything but a veto here. This deal is awful. I really am at a loss for how it ever came about.

I'm not interested in hearing some BS justification for the trade. I already heard one side's and it was patronizing enough as it is. I'm not saying this is collusion. I don't care whether it is or isn't. It is an utter travesty of a trade and if it saw the light of day, it would destroy the league's credibility.

That's pretty much all I got.
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Re: Cafe Challenge Controversy?

Postby Warpigs » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:43 pm

teddy ballgame wrote:
RocketsDWM wrote:Is this an annual league with the same managers? Is it a keeper league? If it is a keeper, then it is even more collusion than before.

I believe it is a redraft league where different people represent different fantasy sites. What it looks like to me is the guy in last place is done and wanted to try and "help" another Cafe representative. I don't want to believe that's what happened, because that's the definition of collusion, but I can't think of another explanation.

I'm interested in what kent has to say, but I don't see how he can justify this.


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Re: Cafe Challenge Controversy?

Postby Warpigs » Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:03 am

Response received from kentx12. I had "vetoed" the trade since it was due to go through tonight -- I left a message on our board saying that it was still under review until I received a note from kentx12. I received this about 20 minutes later:

If anyone hasnt noticed I have alot of big name players who arent producing shit. I wasnt trying to pad mookies team I was trying to make a deal to shake things up. Can I win? Hell no but I sure dont want to finish last behind fantasy football geeks. I will trade anyone on my team to anyone if I think it can help me climb out of the celler.


So, what is your opinion with all the pieces now in place?? I want to do the right thing and preserve this league.
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Re: Cafe Challenge Controversy?

Postby Tavish » Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:19 am

I don't really like the precedence this sets. This trade isn't so far out that it will upset league balance. I think Mookie got the better end of the deal but I wouldn't be all that surprised if Renteria/Cust/Marshall outperformed Sizemore/Harris/Hamels the rest of the season. Would we be talking collusion if this was a trade between a FBC and FFC player?
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Re: Cafe Challenge Controversy?

Postby CBMGreatOne » Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:55 am

Warpigs wrote:Response received from kentx12. I had "vetoed" the trade since it was due to go through tonight -- I left a message on our board saying that it was still under review until I received a note from kentx12. I received this about 20 minutes later:

If anyone hasnt noticed I have alot of big name players who arent producing shit. I wasnt trying to pad mookies team I was trying to make a deal to shake things up. Can I win? Hell no but I sure dont want to finish last behind fantasy football geeks. I will trade anyone on my team to anyone if I think it can help me climb out of the celler.


So, what is your opinion with all the pieces now in place?? I want to do the right thing and preserve this league.


I didn't really need to see an explanation for why kent was making this deal. In my mind, this changes nothing. Essentially he's throwing up his hands in that message. I think if he wanted to climb out of the cellar, he could have made a trade where he actually got appropriate value for the players that he is trading. I'm pretty sure he could have gotten a better package of players for just Hamels than he gets in this trade.

If you let this trade through, you compromise the league's legitimacy. I know that the "no collusion" crowd will disagree, but IMHO, you have to kill it.
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Re: Cafe Challenge Controversy?

Postby talan37 » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:10 am

No brainer veto imo.

I don't really understand his explanation of underperforming stars. Sizemore has been fantastic, period. Renteria has been pretty good, but still nowhere near sizemore and Renteria is playing way above his head. Hamels has been in a bit of a rough patch, but he still has 11wins, 124ip, 126k, 3.83era, 1.24whip.... hardly numbers to scoff at. While Harris hasn't been great, the difference between him and harris isn't that significant.

Cust is obviously a bit of a unknown, but even if he hits 30hr's in the second half, I am still not sure this deal is even close.

I understand the struggling mentality where your just trying to get something going... but I still can't see any way I could justify this with a straight face.
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Re: Cafe Challenge Controversy?

Postby CBMGreatOne » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:23 pm

Tavish wrote:I don't really like the precedence this sets. This trade isn't so far out that it will upset league balance. I think Mookie got the better end of the deal but I wouldn't be all that surprised if Renteria/Cust/Marshall outperformed Sizemore/Harris/Hamels the rest of the season. Would we be talking collusion if this was a trade between a FBC and FFC player?


Wait, are you serious? That really wouldn't surprise you? It would absolutely surprise the pants off of me.

Lol, I hope this trade was thrown in the garbage where it belongs. :-b
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Re: Cafe Challenge Controversy?

Postby prricci » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:37 pm

Sure hope this is not collusion; but there on the mere suspicion of this trade being so lobsided, I would have to veto it or put it up to a league vote for veto. I do not veto trades unless there is a strong suspicion of collusion or a last place team giving up and giving away players...I suspect the latter here given the members involved.

Oh, and Sizemore is one of the few players on pinch hitters with big names who are not underperforming, so if he was not giving up and trying to climb out of the cellar, he could have moved an underperforming big name.
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Re: Cafe Challenge Controversy?

Postby toledomudhens » Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:44 am

this is a tough one here... but the selling point of collusion for me was mookie defending players like JACK CUST in this deal and actually comparing him to GRADY SIEZMORE.I would not let a trade like this go threw and would seroiusly consider locking the 2 teams rosters for the rest of the year and send them packing... i love the hole fantasy aspect of baseball( we get to manage a team the way we see fit and get to have fun doing it) but i can't or would not tolerate cheating in any league. "Jack cust has 14 homers" i loved this saying here this made me really laugh...VETO ALL THE WAY
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