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Cafe Challenge Controversy?

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Cafe Challenge Controversy?

Postby Warpigs » Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:37 pm

Have an interesting issue in the Cafe Challenge league (of course we're in the middle of baseball season). There is a trade pending between two of the baseball cafe members. Pinch Hitters (kentx12), who is in last place, and Mooktacular (Mookie4ever) second place in the league and highest FBC in the standings). Pinch Hitters give up Cole Hamels, Grady Sizemore and Brendan Harris to Mookie for Edgar Renteria, Jack Cust and Sean Marshall. I can't imagine collusion going on in the Cafe Challenge league, but there are certain red flags about this deal concerning the players involved and the ranks of the teams in the standings. Mookie's response to the trade:
I've been trying to get steals all year. Sizemore is the best player in this deal but I am giving up one of the best shortstops plus Cust who has as many HR in half of the AB.
Hamels has only one win with a 5.00 ERA and a 1.50 Whip over the past month but I want him for his strike outs.
I agree that I did better on this deal than on the Craw deal but it's not crazy. I gave up 3 starters for 2 better ones and now I don't have a shortstop.
I tried for weeks with about a dozen PMs to work out a deal with Swiper and was never able to close the deal. The baseball guys seem to be the only ones who want to do a deal in this league. I'm not just going to sit back and let this thing play out, I want to win it. Anybody else try sending an offer to the last place team?
This isn't football where you do the draft and then sit down in front of your TV, you've got to work it boys.
I'm now in the market for a ss and I still need steals.


Mookie's current roster:
C Jorge Posada
1B Albert Pujols
2B Robinson Canó
3B Aramis Ramírez
SS Édgar Rentería
OF Brad Hawpe
OF Carl Crawford
OF Willy Taveras
Util Jack Cust
BN Michael Cuddyer
BN Chad Tracy
BN Xavier Nady
P Chad Cordero
P Todd Jones
P Derek Lowe
P Brandon Webb
P Manny Corpas
BN Jason Marquis
BN Chris Young
BN Sean Marshall
DL Huston Street


Pinch Hitters' current roster:
C Johnny Estrada
1B David Ortiz
2B Julio Lugo
3B Ty Wigginton
SS Brendan Harris
OF Grady Sizemore
OF Vernon Wells
OF Hideki Matsui
Util Carlos Peña
BN Richie Sexson
P Bob Wickman
P Francisco Cordero
P Joe Borowski
P Brad Hennessey
P Jeff Francis
BN Hideki Okajima
BN Kelvim Escobar
BN Cole Hamels
BN Chien-Ming Wang
BN Sergio Mitre
DL John Smoltz


We have yet to hear from PinchHitters. Any feedback from the cafe (since we represent our respective cafes by competing in this league).

Thanks
WP
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Re: Cafe Challenge Controversy?

Postby Mookie4ever » Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:43 pm

You should really put up my entire post. I was also criticized for my deal before this one getting Craw for Abreu and Lackey. You should have probably put this in the proper forum as well. I've got to run. I'm actually leaving on vacation and will be without an internet connection for 9-10 days :-o I'm curious to see how this plays out.
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Re: Cafe Challenge Controversy?

Postby Warpigs » Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:48 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:You should really put up my entire post. I was also criticized for my deal before this one getting Craw for Abreu and Lackey. You should have probably put this in the proper forum as well. I've got to run. I'm actually leaving on vacation and will be without an internet connection for 9-10 days :-o I'm curious to see how this plays out.


Contrary to popular belief among some FFC, I had no problem with the Lackey-Abreu for Crawford deal, hence I felt it was unnecessary here. If I was concerned about it, I would have asked for feedback from both parties at that time before allowing it to go through. The current pending trade, however, is somewhat concerning overall. I felt it was best to leave up to the masses to get more feedback overall before making the final decision.
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Re: Cafe Challenge Controversy?

Postby angelo285 » Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:49 pm

honestly, who cares anyways
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Re: Cafe Challenge Controversy?

Postby Heiserman02 » Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:00 pm

I'm not in the league, but I can't begin to see how this could benefit the last place team in any way. I'm normally against defending managers from themselves unless it is totally ridiculous, but I feel like this is one of those cases.

The last place team is giving up the two best players in the deal and receiving the two worst. I know hamels may have had a rough last month, but we can all agree he's vastly superior to Sean Marshall. Renteria is a solid player, but he is nowhere near enough to warrant the talent he is commanding.

I don't want to assume collusion, but I can't think of any reason an even mildly informed person would make this trade.
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Re: Cafe Challenge Controversy?

Postby teddy ballgame » Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:07 pm

To be honest, I would veto and suspect collusion if I saw that deal in one of my leagues. Not even close to being even IMO.
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Re: Cafe Challenge Controversy?

Postby Snakes Gould » Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:46 pm

instead of posting mookie's response, id like to see kent's. this trade is extremely lopsided and i dont see how kent could do it. but these are two highly respected members of the cafe so i dont think collusion is involved in any way and usually i only veto if some sort of colluding/cheating is going on.
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Re: Cafe Challenge Controversy?

Postby RocketsDWM » Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:53 pm

Sorry, thats collusion. That is a BS deal that should NOT go through. I think it is clear what happened here (trading with a last place team). And what the first place team wrote swayed my opinion even more. Hamels is probably a top 10-15 pitcher and Sizemore is an excellent OF. Marshall is terrible and Cust is not reliable. And isnt Harris a SS? So he would be getting a SS in return.

Is this an annual league with the same managers? Is it a keeper league? If it is a keeper, then it is even more collusion than before.

As a commish, I think you have to step in and veto the deal outright.
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Re: Cafe Challenge Controversy?

Postby RocketsDWM » Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:54 pm

Snakes Gould wrote:instead of posting mookie's response, id like to see kent's. this trade is extremely lopsided and i dont see how kent could do it. but these are two highly respected members of the cafe so i dont think collusion is involved in any way and usually i only veto if some sort of colluding/cheating is going on.


He said Kent has yet to respond.
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Re: Cafe Challenge Controversy?

Postby Snakes Gould » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:47 am

RocketsDWM wrote:
Snakes Gould wrote:instead of posting mookie's response, id like to see kent's. this trade is extremely lopsided and i dont see how kent could do it. but these are two highly respected members of the cafe so i dont think collusion is involved in any way and usually i only veto if some sort of colluding/cheating is going on.


He said Kent has yet to respond.


yeah i know that. what im saying is, i dont think anything should happen yet until he sees kent's response. i dont think you can judge from mookie's response. hes in a defenseless situation either way because even if they didnt collude, he knows he ripped him off and he wants the trade to stick. ive been in that situation before too.
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