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Sicko (the movie)

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Re: Sicko (the movie)

Postby Amazinz » Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:46 pm

Absolutely Adequate wrote:Also, keep "LOL"ing at global warming.

Lol. Thanks for the support. I will. :-)

Now if you don't mind I have to go fill the tank on this Hummer.... :-X
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Re: Sicko (the movie)

Postby Big Pimpin » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:02 pm

Amazinz wrote:
Absolutely Adequate wrote:Also, keep "LOL"ing at global warming.

Lol. Thanks for the support. I will. :-)

Now if you don't mind I have to go fill the tank on this Hummer.... :-X


:-b

AA doesn't like to think about anything (including science or other facts) that might go against his train of though. It's ok though, sheep are always useful.
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Re: Sicko (the movie)

Postby Absolutely Adequate » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:49 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
Amazinz wrote:
Absolutely Adequate wrote:Also, keep "LOL"ing at global warming.

Lol. Thanks for the support. I will. :-)

Now if you don't mind I have to go fill the tank on this Hummer.... :-X


:-b

AA doesn't like to think about anything (including science or other facts) that might go against his train of though. It's ok though, sheep are always useful.


Damn right. I also won't look at opinions that say the moon is made of cheese. But don't make this about me. I post facts that show the US healthcare is mediocre and you say it isn't. You provide no facts but do provide baseless attacks. You're discrediting your position with your childishness, refusal to discuss issues, and silly and outdated screenname.

What is your position, exactly? I'd love to have a real discussion without ad hominem attacks. Can we do that, Big Pimpin'?
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Re: Sicko (the movie)

Postby josebach » Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:11 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:AA doesn't like to think about anything (including science or other facts) that might go against his train of though.


Actually, you couldn't have more perfectly described conservatives. :-?
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Re: Sicko (the movie)

Postby TheRock » Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:03 am

Golly, this thread had some good discussion earlier. Is it now all about name-calling?
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Re: Sicko (the movie)

Postby Absolutely Adequate » Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:51 am

TheRock wrote:Golly, this thread had some good discussion earlier. Is it now all about name-calling?


That seems to be the case. I don't know why, but certain members seem to dislike my views enough that they ignore what is written and focus on who wrote them. I could understand it if I were Rico the Retard, but I think I put out well-thought out ideas and facts. I don't get it.

But, to try to get us back on track:


1. The United States spends twice as much per capita on health care as any other industrialized country (13 percent of its GDP) and yet has the highest infant mortality rate, the lowest life expectancy and the most people uninsured of any industrialized country.
2. On any given day, more than 40 million Americans live with the prospect of facing financial ruin in order to pay for their health care, or going without care altogether, and the number of uninsured in the United States continues to grow, now estimated at 45-47 million.
3. A recent study by Harvard University and the Canadian Institute for Health Information found that private insurance companies in the United States spend 11.7 cents of every health care dollar on administrative costs, mainly advertising and underwriting, compared with 3.6 cents for Medicare and 1.3 cents for CanadaÕs government-run system.
4. Health care costs now account for a far higher share of labor costs in the United States than in most other countries, putting companies here at a disadvantage competitively. Companies are fighting this by outsourcing, by using temp workers, or simply by instructing employees how to get welfare (see Mart, Wal-)
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Re: Sicko (the movie)

Postby ukrneal » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:14 am

My issue with some of the posts is that some seem to refuse to acknowledge that the US system might not be the 'best' medical system in the world. SInce there are so many ways to measure this, it would seem to me that a system could be best or worst at the same time depending on what you were measuring.

In the case of the US system vs the European system, there has always been this ying yang of some people admiring many aspects of the European system for some of the things it succeeds at better than the US system and others who deride it for those very same accomplishments because of the socialist nature of the system. Certainly, if we were to shift toward such a system we should clearly understand the downside of that system.

But fundamentally, I suspect the argument is less about medicine, but ideology. Should there be universal insurance? This question alone will spawn arguments back and forth in the US, while manyEuropeans would not think to even argue about this.
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Re: Sicko (the movie)

Postby Amazinz » Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:33 am

I don't refuse to believe. I refused to be swayed by the type of information posted in this thread and ultimately I refuse to care. In my humble opinion, it does not matter whether the U.S. is the best or worst. There is no way to come to an objective consensus on it and the argument just obfuscates the real issues. I think that the bottom line is whether or not U.S. health care satisfies U.S. citizens.
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Re: Sicko (the movie)

Postby Big Pimpin » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:09 pm

Absolutely Adequate wrote:
Big Pimpin wrote:AA doesn't like to think about anything (including science or other facts) that might go against his train of though. It's ok though, sheep are always useful.


Damn right. I also won't look at opinions that say the moon is made of cheese. But don't make this about me. I post facts that show the US healthcare is mediocre and you say it isn't. You provide no facts but do provide baseless attacks. You're discrediting your position with your childishness, refusal to discuss issues, and silly and outdated screenname.

What is your position, exactly? I'd love to have a real discussion without ad hominem attacks. Can we do that, Big Pimpin'?


This is awesome. :-b You've now resorted to attacking my screenname. I'd expect nothing less. :-b

First off, I'd like you to show me where I said the US health care system isn't mediocre. Never have I said such a thing. In fact, my job would be gone if the system was perfect. My company works with various States on their Uninsured expansion programs and health care reform. Obviously, uninsured people are a problem (to the whole system) and the government can be very inefficient in their purchasing. We try to assist with those problems. From a personal standpoint, I have very little issues with the system. My family's health care is 100% subsidized by my firm, so the costs don't bother me. We have no problems with access, have had nothing but good experiences with our docs, etc. But as far as the system, it could definitely use some work.

However, that doesn't mean I have a desire to watch Moore's latest socialist propaganda film. We may end up watching it as a company since it is, after all, our market. But we'll just have to see.

-----------------------------------------------------

Sidebar:

As far as my comment about science and facts, that was more directed at your snippy comment to Amazinz about global warming. I happen to not believe any of it, and neither one of us will see the "answer" in our lifetimes. But if you actually pay attention to all of the science on the issue, it's not nearly the fact that Al Gore and the lemmings would have you believe. But you're smart enough to read up on all the various studies that say things like:

-The temperature of the atmosphere fluctuates over a wide range, the result of solar activity and other influences. During the past 3,000 years, there have been five extended periods when it was distinctly warmer than today. One of the two coldest periods, known as the Little Ice Age, occurred 300 years ago. Atmospheric temperatures have been rising from that low for the past 300 years, but remain below the 3,000-year average.
-100 million years ago, there was six times as much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere as there is now, yet the temperature then was marginally cooler than it is today. Many scientists have concluded that carbon dioxide doesn't even affect climate.
-When proper satellite measurements are done of world temperatures, they do not show any increase whatsoever over the last 20 years.
-Etc, etc, etc...

In any case, I certainly think we should strive to pollute less and conserve our natural resources to the best of our abilities and all that. I just have a serious issue with anyone who takes global warming as a fact (when the empirical data shows temperatures around the world going up and going down depending on where you are at). But I suppose that's neither here nor there. I'd say it's worthy of it's own discussion, but I have a feeling I know exactly where that would go, so it's not worth it whatsoever.

Have a good day. :-)
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Re: Sicko (the movie)

Postby AcidRock23 » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:12 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:
Absolutely Adequate wrote:
From a personal standpoint, I have very little issues with the system. My family's health care is 100% subsidized by my firm, so the costs don't bother me.


THIS is actually my largest problem with everything in the health care system. I think that everyone should be able to agree that more is put into the US health care system than we get out of it. The reason for this is that there is little regulation of prices. An MRI that is $450 or so at the VA might be $2000 at a different hospital down the street, unless you have [insert health insurance provider...] who have negotiated a 'reasonable and customary price (no doubt citing the 'actual cost of the services as 'proven' by the VA)' of 1874.63. This is utterly absurd, as a 'consumer' doesn't have any control over what the costs are and, if you are in a situation where you need services promptly, the stuff gets filed away and then is subject to further negotiations on the back end...'oh, was this a car accident? Maybe that company will pay MORE than the 1874.63 on the sucker!!'. There is a staggering number of resources devoted to answering these questions which have basically zero value to anyone involved in them, except people who get paid to haggle about this crap.

I think that price controls for medical services would go a long way towrds allowing better management of our health care system and, given the vast amount of mechanization of these processes (which are generally reviewed by computer systems...) would be very simple to implement. The big objection to this would likely come from medical providers more than health insurers which is why I suspect that Michael Moore's 'prescription' for health care reform shows that he is, in fact, as much of a big fat idiot as Rush Limbaugh. I have enjoyed his other movies and have not seen sicko but I have worked in property and casualty insurance on the front lines of these shenanigans and have seen how it plays out. It is utterly absurd. It does not suprise me that Franz Kafka was a claims adjuster...
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