Sicko (the movie) - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to General Talk

Sicko (the movie)

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Re: Sicko (the movie)

Postby knapplc » Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:47 am

Lofunzo wrote:
She has had good, competent doctors and very poor doctors.


Good to hear. ;-D That could be the exception and not the norm, though.

Yeah. It's important to always keep in mind that one anecdotal situation doth not a whole trend make, nor does it negate any other anecdotal reference. It's just there as an FYI, and we can do with it what we want.
Keep wreves in General Talk in 2011!
knapplc
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicGolden Eagle Eye
Posts: 7870
Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: It's "ell see." ELL SEE!!!

Re: Sicko (the movie)

Postby Coppermine » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:39 am

Based on some of the responses to my relatively benign "ranking" of countries based on health care, the fact is that we live in a society where our government provides certain 'safety nets' for its less fortunate citizens. It's striking a balance between socialism and democracy that I neither agree nor disagree with. My perception is merely that the gov't should be consistence in the help it provides. If the US citizens pay for and realize that there is an agency such as FEMA established and paid for by the government to at least make a half decent attempt to ave their ass if they get stuck on a roof in a flood, and then they don't even TRY, well then that's not right. I understand the arguments that people need to take care of themselves and I'm ok with that... but then I would just ask why I'm paying for FEMA at all? If we presumably provide safety nets for people, then those nets need to be available when necessary. Otherwise, just get rid of them.

Our health care's safety net is Medicare (and medicaid). We spend a buttload of money on those programs. And why? If someone is sick and they can't afford for a doctor to take care of them, we'd feel a little better about ourselves not letting those people die just because they're poor or disadvantaged. Personally, I'm ok with that because I'm not a cold-hearted bastard and I think that all Americans, as long as we live in this great nation of ours, deserve at least the opportunity not be left out to die because they can't afford an appendectomy. We can go to the methods of Russia and China that let the peasants fend for themselves, but I think it would hurt our "greatest country ever" title. We're also not a tiny country like Luxembourg or Sweden that taxes its citizens 50% of their income but provides a plethora of free public services.

So, ok, you don't want to foot the healthcare bill for some fatso who decided to eat and drink too much. But then there are people who are legitimately poor and legitimately sick. We can focus on those who abuse the system and point to that as a reason for de-socializing health care, but what about the millions of Americans in poverty and the millions of Americans who aren't in poverty but simply don't have healthcare because it's too expensive to buy it on their own? It's easy for you to say you don't expect someone else to foot your medical bills if you have health insurance, presumably free and provided by your employer.

I don't have the answers, but I'm just trying to see what the anti-socialized health care crowd thinks.
If you're a battery, you're either working or you're dead....
Coppermine
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar

Posts: 8840
Joined: 6 Sep 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Pennsyltucky

Re: Sicko (the movie)

Postby Pacman » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:54 am

Illegal Immigration and Health Care are (in my cynical opinion) the two domestic issues that should be considered the MOST IMPORTANT facing our nation.

And yet...


Virtually every candidate (Rep. AND Dem.) running for the nation's Highest Office (the mainstream ones, anyway), is PETRIFIED to do anything other than pay generic lip-service to those issues.

Both are political QUAGMIRES.... and thus are being avoided like the plague by the candidates.

In a perfect world, the media, and the citizens, would hold every candidate's feet to the fire and MAKE them answer the tough questions... but sadly, they all just skate by with convenient soundbytes that(sadly) appease the media, while consumers of news (we the people) don't do much about it.

I don't like Michael Moore. I don't agree with him politically. I don't like the concept of socialized medicine. But I applaud him for trying to get us to wake up and pay attention to the issue.


I wish someone would do the same thing about Illegal Immigration.


peace
Last edited by Pacman on Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Pacman
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafeholic
Posts: 2569
Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Birthplace of the US Navy

Re: Sicko (the movie)

Postby beatdrum » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:57 am

Pacman wrote:Illegal Immigration and Health Care are (in my cynical opinion) the two issues that should be considered the MOST IMPORTANT facing our nation.

And yet...


Virtually every candidate (Rep. AND Dem.) running for the nation's Highest Office (the mainstream ones, anyway), is PETRIFIED to do anything other than pay generic lip-service to those issues.

Both are political QUAGMIRES.... and thus are being avoided like the plague by the candidates.

In a perfect world, the media, and the citizens, would hold every candidate's feet to the fire and MAKE them answer the tough questions... but sadly, they all just skate by with convenient soundbytes that(sadly) appease the media, while consumers of news (we the people) don't do much about it.

I don't like Michael Moore. I don't agree with him politically. I don't like the concept of socialized medicine. But I applaud him for trying to get us to wake up and pay attention to the issue.


I wish someone would do the same thing about Illegal Immigration.


peace


Now this is the best post on this topic so far ;-D
beatdrum
College Coach
College Coach

User avatar

Posts: 342
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Sicko (the movie)

Postby Big Pimpin » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:05 pm

Absolutely Adequate wrote:3. Somebody used this thread to libel John Edwards, which shows a complete lack of understanding of what he did for a living.


Since this was directed at me...

Last I checked, libel implies a false statement. I'm pretty sure there's no debate that Edwards got rich on medical malpractice lawsuits, which in turn have helped raise the costs of malpractice insurance, which in turn are costs that are passed on to the consumers. You're smart enough to know that.

I had a whole thing written up about a case he was involved in and how it leads me to think he's a scumbag, but it's not even worth it. I'll just say I totally understand what he did for a living and think he's a scumbag for it. :-)
Big Pimpin
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 13710
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Building a metric. And being ignorable and stupid.

Re: Sicko (the movie)

Postby Coppermine » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:40 pm

Big Pimpin wrote:I had a whole thing written up about a case he was involved in and how it leads me to think he's a scumbag, but it's not even worth it. I'll just say I totally understand what he did for a living and think he's a scumbag for it. :-)


Right, he was a lawyer... like most politicians.
If you're a battery, you're either working or you're dead....
Coppermine
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar

Posts: 8840
Joined: 6 Sep 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Pennsyltucky

Re: Sicko (the movie)

Postby Lofunzo » Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:42 pm

I don't like Michael Moore. I don't agree with him politically. I don't like the concept of socialized medicine. But I applaud him for trying to get us to wake up and pay attention to the issue.


Agreed. If it gets society to look closer at the healthcare system and try to fix some of what's wrong with it, I'm down. Just like Canseco's book and Game of Shadows.* Both weren't written with good intentions and they are tools for it but, if some good (testing) came out of them, I'm fine.
Image
Lofunzo
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerEagle EyeHockey ModPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 23698
(Past Year: 11)
Joined: 9 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Central Jersey

Re: Sicko (the movie)

Postby Absolutely Adequate » Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:20 pm

I'll ignore the off-topic, factless smearing of John Edwards and focus on the idea that the US has a pretty mediocre health-care system. I think that's pretty obvious, but maybe I've heard more about it since I dated a doctor for a couple of years.

1. The United States spends twice as much per capita on health care as any other industrialized country (13 percent of its GDP) and yet has the highest infant mortality rate, the lowest life expectancy and the most people uninsured of any industrialized country.
2. On any given day, more than 40 million Americans live with the prospect of facing financial ruin in order to pay for their health care, or going without care altogether, and the number of uninsured in the United States continues to grow, now estimated at 45-47 million.
3. A recent study by Harvard University and the Canadian Institute for Health Information found that private insurance companies in the United States spend 11.7 cents of every health care dollar on administrative costs, mainly advertising and underwriting, compared with 3.6 cents for Medicare and 1.3 cents for CanadaÕs government-run system.
4. Health care costs now account for a far higher share of labor costs in the United States than in most other countries, putting companies here at a disadvantage competitively. Companies are fighting this by outsourcing, by using temp workers, or simply by instructing employees how to get welfare (see Mart, Wal-)

I'd think that'd be enough to convince anyone that we need some changes. You may dislike the messenger, but ignore the message at our peril.
Absolutely Adequate
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 5000
Joined: 6 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Not here.

Re: Sicko (the movie)

Postby Amazinz » Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:07 pm

Please, Moore needs to get his priorities straight. There's no way we can fix health care right now. We're too busy fighting Global Warming. Lol. I don't know about you but I'm far more worried the Earth spontaneously combusting than I am about someone's ability to get a flue shot. ;-7

Haven't seen it yet. We'll definitely watch it. I despise Moore and his propaganda but taking a stand and not watching it doesn't serve a purpose for me. He has such a large fan base that it's worth watching to have context.

We can definitely improve the health care system and not because someone posts statistics that "prove" that the U.S. is the "worstest eva". My health care is awesome. I earn it. I don't think we can or should abandon poor people. I also don't think you can understate the potential that exists in this country to pick yourself up by your bootstraps and do better for yourself and your family.
Image
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
Amazinz
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 18800
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: in Canada, toughening up figure skaters

Re: Sicko (the movie)

Postby Absolutely Adequate » Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:41 pm

[quote="Amazinz"]We can definitely improve the health care system and not because someone posts statistics that "prove" that the U.S. is the "worstest eva".[quote]

Generally, we only use quotation marks when we're quoting someone. Also, keep "LOL"ing at global warming. Some other things you may find funny: Evolution, the Theory of Relativity, and the idea that the Earth revolves around the sun.
Absolutely Adequate
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 5000
Joined: 6 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Not here.

PreviousNext

Return to General Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Tuesday, Sep. 2
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Cincinnati at Baltimore
(7:05 pm)
Detroit at Cleveland
(7:05 pm)
Boston at NY Yankees
(7:05 pm)
Philadelphia at Atlanta
(7:10 pm)
NY Mets at Miami
(7:10 pm)
indoors
Toronto at Tampa Bay
(7:10 pm)
indoors
Milwaukee at Chi Cubs
(8:05 pm)
Chi White Sox at Minnesota
(8:10 pm)
Texas at Kansas City
(8:10 pm)
LA Angels at Houston
(8:10 pm)
Pittsburgh at St. Louis
(8:15 pm)
San Francisco at Colorado
(8:40 pm)
Seattle at Oakland
(10:05 pm)
Washington at LA Dodgers
(10:10 pm)
Arizona at San Diego
(10:10 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact