Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
Well, Mark Rich was pardoned by Clinton. Rich had some hotshot lawyer who knew that if you were well connected, you could be pardoned.
That lawyers name? Scooter Libby.
To answer 5's question - the connection was made because Clinton pardoned a long list of people - many of them political allies - just before he left office. Obviously Bush only commuted this one ally's sentence, but thats why the connection was made - to show that this type of action isnt necessarily a rep/dem issue as some may want you to believe.
And AA, dont forget that Clinton's brother was also selling pardons as well.
My take on all this? Is anyone really that suprised? Our governmet has been corrupted for generations now. Its just with the advancement of journalism and communication (internet) that it has opened the public's eye to it more and more over the last 20-30 years. Its still a 2 party system (rich vs. poor - not dem vs. rep) - and until we as a people decide that voting for a 3rd party candidate isnt "throwing your vote away" will we ever have the chance to put someone in office who actually places the will of the people ahead of the will of their party.
I also wanted to comment on the perception that many of the democrat or republican candidates are somehow "moderates". My opinion that anyone who supports ideas to increase the government (universal health care, etc...) is pretty far to the left. I guess it depends on what your definition of moderate is.
Well, Mark Rich was pardoned by Clinton. Rich had some hotshot lawyer who knew that if you were well connected, you could be pardoned.
That lawyers name? Scooter Libby.
To answer 5's question - the connection was made because Clinton pardoned a long list of people - many of them political allies - just before he left office. Obviously Bush only commuted this one ally's sentence, but thats why the connection was made - to show that this type of action isnt necessarily a rep/dem issue as some may want you to believe.
And AA, dont forget that Clinton's brother was also selling pardons as well.
My take on all this? Is anyone really that suprised? Our governmet has been corrupted for generations now. Its just with the advancement of journalism and communication (internet) that it has opened the public's eye to it more and more over the last 20-30 years. Its still a 2 party system (rich vs. poor - not dem vs. rep) - and until we as a people decide that voting for a 3rd party candidate isnt "throwing your vote away" will we ever have the chance to put someone in office who actually places the will of the people ahead of the will of their party.
I also wanted to comment on the perception that many of the democrat or republican candidates are somehow "moderates". My opinion that anyone who supports ideas to increase the government (universal health care, etc...) is pretty far to the left. I guess it depends on what your definition of moderate is.
Really? Clinton's brother was selling pardons? Do you have any proof of that? Or is it akin to the government plotting 9/11 and the Clinton's killing people?
Sometimes, increasing government is good. Eisenhower increased the government and he build the interstate highway system. FDR increased the government and it brought us out of hte depression. Lincoln increased the government and we won the civil war. Don't act like increasing the government is all bad. It's increasing bad government that hurts us. Good government is just planning for the future. Taxes pay for schools, roads, hospitals, and the future.
Just for the record, if you go ahead and just privatize schools, roads, and hospitals, then you don't need taxes. Too much is caught up in stupid governmental red tape when the private sector could do it all more efficiently and cheaper. But I suppose that's neither here nor there.
Big Pimpin wrote:Just for the record, if you go ahead and just privatize schools, roads, and hospitals, then you don't need taxes. Too much is caught up in stupid governmental red tape when the private sector could do it all more efficiently and cheaper. But I suppose that's neither here nor there.
What does that have to do with Shooter Libby? In every thread with the least political nexus are people just spouting off political platitudes?
Not directed just at Big Pimple but the guys before him that are comfortable retyping old cliches.
Absolutely Adequate wrote:Really? Clinton's brother was selling pardons? Do you have any proof of that? Or is it akin to the government plotting 9/11 and the Clinton's killing people?
Sometimes, increasing government is good. Eisenhower increased the government and he build the interstate highway system. FDR increased the government and it brought us out of hte depression. Lincoln increased the government and we won the civil war. Don't act like increasing the government is all bad. It's increasing bad government that hurts us. Good government is just planning for the future. Taxes pay for schools, roads, hospitals, and the future.
I was under the impression it was just one of his brother-in-laws, but I guess both of Hill's brothers got into the act:
Absolutely Adequate wrote:Really? Clinton's brother was selling pardons? Do you have any proof of that? Or is it akin to the government plotting 9/11 and the Clinton's killing people?
Sometimes, increasing government is good. Eisenhower increased the government and he build the interstate highway system. FDR increased the government and it brought us out of hte depression. Lincoln increased the government and we won the civil war. Don't act like increasing the government is all bad. It's increasing bad government that hurts us. Good government is just planning for the future. Taxes pay for schools, roads, hospitals, and the future.
I was under the impression it was just one of his brother-in-laws, but I guess both of Hill's brothers got into the act:
So, as I understand it, Bill Clinton's brother in law took 100,000 dollars to help pitch a case for pardon. President Clinton didn't know about the payment that his brother-in-law had gotten and pardoned the couple. When he found out, he ordered his brother-in-law to give back the money. Bill did nothing wrong.
But look, you've managed to change the subject. Back to Libby. Bush has created two systems of government: one for his cronies and one for the American people. The man is very clearly a crook.
George Bush wrote:There are too many leaks of classified information in Washington. There's leaks at the executive branch; there's leaks in the legislative branch. There's just too many leaks. And if there is a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is. And if the person has violated law, the person will be taken care of.
The pardon by the President is one of the silliest laws we have. Presidents from both parties have made stupid decisions in the past by pardoning people that definitely deserved to stay in prison for their entire time. This pardon of Libby just continues along with the same silliness that Clinton and elder Bush among many others have made a sham of the Judiciary branch with pardons.
AA wrote:Lincoln increased the government and we won the civil war.
Way off original topic I know, but I was always under the impression from school that Lincoln suspended alot of government actions to win the war. I seem to remember something about him suspending habeas corpus and overruling the Supreme Court's decision to not suspend habeas corpus.
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by Absolutely Adequate » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:16 pm 
