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Hot Topic: Pitch Counts

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Re: Hot Topic: Pitch Counts

Postby dclark0699 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:00 am

I think a pitch count is a good thing, but I think it should vary from pitcher to pitcher. Some pitchers fatigue at around 85-90 pitches while others can go into 110's 120's before tiring out. Tailor the pitch count to the individual pitcher.

I never had a pitch count growing up though they did actually count the pitches. I remember throwing 125 pitches in a 7 inning game when I was 12. That was just the way I was. I didn't have arm problems and I could wake up the next day and go some more if I was needed. But I knew kids that tired out around the 5th when they reached about 80 pitches. And I knew others who had thrown a 9 inning complete game in high school.
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Re: Hot Topic: Pitch Counts

Postby bigh0rt » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:00 pm

dclark0699 wrote:I think a pitch count is a good thing, but I think it should vary from pitcher to pitcher. Some pitchers fatigue at around 85-90 pitches while others can go into 110's 120's before tiring out. Tailor the pitch count to the individual pitcher.

I never had a pitch count growing up though they did actually count the pitches. I remember throwing 125 pitches in a 7 inning game when I was 12. That was just the way I was. I didn't have arm problems and I could wake up the next day and go some more if I was needed. But I knew kids that tired out around the 5th when they reached about 80 pitches. And I knew others who had thrown a 9 inning complete game in high school.

Aren't high school games only 7 innings long??
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Re: Hot Topic: Pitch Counts

Postby Deuce » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:10 pm

Tim Lincecum has just pitched two games in which he did not give up a run but was pulled for pitch count. He dominated in both games and should have finished both. In the first game, the bullpen tried once again to give it away and in the second, he had such a large lead, even Benitez couldn't lose. IMO, the Giants are saving him for future seasons, because it simply doesn't make since to pull him when he is dominating. They appear to be throwing in the towel on this season. Otherwise, they should leave that bull in the pen.
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Re: Hot Topic: Pitch Counts

Postby Secret Avatar » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:51 pm

I think the increased injuries has nothing to do with pitch counts and everything to do with (i) increased emphasis on hard breaking stuff (sliders, 85-mph curves, etc.) and (ii) medical technology. Yes, medical technology. I think a lot of guys nowadays can be patched up early in their careers whereas even 15 years ago they would have been finished. So you have a lot of injury-prone guys hanging around and continually getting hurt and re-patched up again. Years ago, these guys would have been weeded out through "natural selection" and the end result was more guys with better durability.
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Re: Hot Topic: Pitch Counts

Postby dclark0699 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:52 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
dclark0699 wrote:I think a pitch count is a good thing, but I think it should vary from pitcher to pitcher. Some pitchers fatigue at around 85-90 pitches while others can go into 110's 120's before tiring out. Tailor the pitch count to the individual pitcher.

I never had a pitch count growing up though they did actually count the pitches. I remember throwing 125 pitches in a 7 inning game when I was 12. That was just the way I was. I didn't have arm problems and I could wake up the next day and go some more if I was needed. But I knew kids that tired out around the 5th when they reached about 80 pitches. And I knew others who had thrown a 9 inning complete game in high school.

Aren't high school games only 7 innings long??


Yes...but the situations I was referring to were extra inning games
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Re: Hot Topic: Pitch Counts

Postby number9 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:14 pm

dryice wrote:One thing about the japanese method, is that their "casualties" are somewhat hidden. Yes, they don't have pitchers break down in the normal course ot their career, but the ones that can't stand up to their routine get washed out early, and not nearly as common as here in the states are the 30+ pitchers - tend to burn out around 30.

Think that's the general case when pitch counts are ignored. In the majors back in the "old days", the same trends were going on, lot of early burnouts, 30+ burnouts, and the survivors were the ones who were genetically suited for pitching, very good pitchers to begin with so that their "burning down" stats were still pretty good, plus good driving mechanics with the torso, lessoning the load on the arm...like Seaver for instance.


Spot on, great observation!

Matsuzaka definitely has a rubber arm and/or good mechanics even though he throws a large variety of pitches, some of which could be more harmful to his arm if overused. But yeah, he's definitely the exception to the rule, the number of burnout pitchers in Japan is just incredible. Highschool baseball is definitely one of the big graveyards because they don't play league games, only knockout tournaments. And coaches emphasize winning so much that they put their ace on the mound to start multiple games in a row, and there often aren't any rest days scheduled between consecutive games (that'd be for modern day wusses). Yeah, something like that.
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