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Postby stabone76 » Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:19 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:
Cornbread Maxwell wrote:We are developing our younger players. Munson, Munroe, Pena, Bonderman, Cornejo, German, Sanchez are all younger players that will have a role this yr - some bigger than others. The youngsters who arent ready have gone back to the minors.

We need to field a baseball team. To that end, we found cheap replacements for our biggest holes (even though they were cheap, they still are upgrades from last yr).


How are Bonderman and Cornejo developing?

Biggest hole??? How about on the mound? That is my whole point - some cheap upgrades there would be much more effective than $40M on Pudge.


how is signing someone else supposed to help them develop. THey already lived through the Massacre, you may as well help them get better. May as well keep fighting through it. Replacing someone wont improve them
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Postby stabone76 » Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:21 pm

ukjohn wrote:
Cornbread Maxwell wrote:OK UKJohn - thanks for your brilliant analysis, I will remember your words of wisdom.

Here's mine - The Tigers will finish with a better record than your Reds. You can bank on it. ;-D


I'll take that. Guarantee it!!!!!


Detroit will be better than the reds. Their pitching staff anyway.
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Postby Andy1234 » Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:22 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't remember Pudge ever being praised for his ability to work with pitchers and call a good game.



As far as Reds vs Tigers, I think the Reds will finish with a slightly better Record, But I would much rather have the Tiger Pitching staff.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:36 pm

Andy, thanks for bringing that up.
For a long time Pudge wasnt known for working with the pitching staff in TEX. Some even thought he was terrible at calling games. The Tex pitchers obviously had a rough time.
The question for a lot of people was: Is Pudge really not a good helper for his Ps, or were his Ps beyond help.

I apologize for not having a link to support this, but recently an ex-Texas higher up (forgot name and job, so please someone help with details on this) commented on just that topic. He basically said it was easy to blame Pudge for the problem, but in reality no catcher could have done anything different with the terrible pitching staff they had. He said the rumor that Pudge was a bad pitch caller was a load of hooey.

Then came last yr for him. He seemed to do just fine with a young staff with talent, didnt he?

I guess, for me, I dont buy the rumor.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:45 pm

Erboes wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:You cannot predict what these staffs will do.

The Tigers are a shellshocked group of kids and the Reds are a group of journeyman retreads.

The Tigers hitting is improving, however, the Reds....not so much.


I disagree with your assessment of the Reds' bats. They were ravaged by injuries last season and if they're a bit healthier they should bounce back in a big way. They are better than the Tigers at every position except C, SS, and 3B.

I apologize for sticking my nose in this, but if things fall right for both teams I can see the Reds getting to 81 wins and the Tigers to 63. Only if everything falls apart for the Reds again can I see the Tigers finishing with a better record.


Don't apologize.

You may be right, the Reds could knock the cover off of the ball. But for that to happen Griff has to stay healthy, Dunn has to get his head screwed on right and stay above the Mendoza line, Kearns' shoulder has to heal and Larkin has to get healthy at the age of 39 and show that old spark.

For my money I think that Dunn will bounce back somewhat but there are just too many questions with the Reds' lineup. I believe that the odds are good that Griff will get injured again and Kearns' second half scares me.

So I stick with my opinion that I don't think that the Reds bats are improving. Casey is treading water as a hitter, Griff is too injured and Kearns and Larkin were getting worse last year.

The only ones that I see improving are Dunn and Jiminez.
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Postby ukjohn » Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:32 pm

Journeyman Pitchers?

count up how many starts Claussen, Harang, and Acavedo have total!!!

Tigers= 52-110
Reds= 75- 87

Lineup: Reds by far
SP's: Reds by a little bit (put the Tigers in our ballpark and see what happens)
RP's: not even close, Reds always have one of the best
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:22 pm

UK, are you still using last yrs W-L stats to make your case?

I thought we discussed that already.
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Postby Andy1234 » Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:27 pm

ukjohn wrote:Tigers= 52-110
Reds= 75- 87

Cornbread, I think these were just his predictions for record in 2004.
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Postby ukjohn » Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:43 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:UK, are you still using last yrs W-L stats to make your case?

I thought we discussed that already.


do you play fantasy baseball? do you use projections for the upcoming season? how do you come up with those projections? by using LAST YEARS stats is a big part of it.

If you can't count the past, then what can you count? The Yankees have never won a World Series then? Whats it matter if I use last years stats? The Reds had everybody injured and they still made the Tigers look like a Little League team. Now that they are all healthy, look out.

I have never seen any Tiger fans make valid points as to why the Tigers won't lose 100 games, let alone be .500
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Postby Mookie4ever » Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:03 pm

ukjohn wrote:Journeyman Pitchers?

count up how many starts Claussen, Harang, and Acavedo have total!!!

Tigers= 52-110
Reds= 75- 87

Lineup: Reds by far
SP's: Reds by a little bit (put the Tigers in our ballpark and see what happens)
RP's: not even close, Reds always have one of the best



?
do you know what journeyman means?
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