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Postby ukjohn » Thu Feb 05, 2004 5:15 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:OK UKJohn - thanks for your brilliant analysis, I will remember your words of wisdom.

Here's mine - The Tigers will finish with a better record than your Reds. You can bank on it. ;-D


I'll take that. Guarantee it!!!!!
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Postby ukjohn » Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:42 am

guess the Tiger fans don't want to play that game, :-D
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:09 am

well, id be happy to see what kind of guarantee you are talking about. Seems like a pretty arbitrary word until details are brought forth.

What did you have in mind?

BTW - Who are the Reds pitchers again?
Isnt the Great American Ballpark the best hitters park in the majors, or is it just top 5?
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Postby ukjohn » Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:22 am

it isn't even in the top 5 in runs, I don't think

second in HR's I believe

Tigers vs Reds...come on, give me a break

1. Paul Wilson
2. Cory Lidle
3. Jimmy Haynes
4. Aaron Harang
5. Brandon Claussen/Juan Acevado

1. Jason Johnson
2. Mike Maroth
3. Nate Cornejo
4. Jeremy Bonderman
5. Nate Robertson/Gary Knotts

I think the Reds have the best rotation. Wilson bb/k rate is 50/93. Lidle is a nice addition. Haynes sucked last year, but won 15 games in 2002. Harang wasn't given a chance in Oakland, and should surprise a lot of people. Claussen is one of the top pitching prospects in MLB.

Johnson is a decent #4/5 pitcher. Great guy, I went to high school with him. 21, 17, 19...know what that is? the losses of their #2, 3, and 4 pitchers, :-B

Want to look at the lineup...be my guest!!!!!!
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Postby ukjohn » Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:26 am

Tigers Lineup:

1. A Sanchez
2. F Vina
3. I Rodriguez
4. D Young
5. C Pena
6. B Higginson
7. R White
8. E Munson
9. C Guillen

Reds Lineup:

1. D Jimenez
2. B Larkin
3. K Griffey Jr
4. A Kearns
5. S Casey
6. A Dunn
7. J LaRue
8. B Larson
9. Pitcher

The Reds will score more runs than the Tigers even if Detroit had two DH's
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:31 am

my goodness man. Have you not read this entire thread? You just quoted to me the loss record of our starters from last yr as a proof of how bad they are going to be this yr.

Take a minute and go read this thread.

Then do me a favor and answer this question for me:

Why is it problematic to use last yrs basic pitching stats for Detroit to get an estimate for this yr?
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Postby Mookie4ever » Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:50 am

You cannot predict what these staffs will do.

The Tigers are a shellshocked group of kids and the Reds are a group of journeyman retreads.

The Tigers hitting is improving, however, the Reds....not so much.
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Postby Erboes » Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:06 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:You cannot predict what these staffs will do.

The Tigers are a shellshocked group of kids and the Reds are a group of journeyman retreads.

The Tigers hitting is improving, however, the Reds....not so much.


I disagree with your assessment of the Reds' bats. They were ravaged by injuries last season and if they're a bit healthier they should bounce back in a big way. They are better than the Tigers at every position except C, SS, and 3B.

I apologize for sticking my nose in this, but if things fall right for both teams I can see the Reds getting to 81 wins and the Tigers to 63. Only if everything falls apart for the Reds again can I see the Tigers finishing with a better record.
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Postby stabone76 » Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:10 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:im still not sure of the point of this Mook.
Im gonna say you didnt really keep those 3 pitchers, but this was a veiled attempt at taking a swipe at our pitching. Am I right?

Lets talk about it. Are you really gonna right off these guys because they played for Detroit even though you know the situation this yr is completely different than last yr?

That seems short sighted to me.

All three had decent minor numbers before getting called up too early, and other than psychologically (which may or may not be a real problem - it could have made them tougher), are they worse pitchers this yr?

In your opinion, how much emphasis should be placed on a SPs situation? What if he has a terrible defense behind him? What if his offense gives him little run support? What about stadiums - do they have an impact? How about experience in the majors - do pitchers ever get better through experience?


Its pretty bad when i cant even make fun of the tigers because they are much better than my team... im thinking of jumping off a bridge... geesh, i cant even make fun of the tigers :-o 8-o :,-(
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Postby stabone76 » Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:12 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:
Cornbread Maxwell wrote:Not sure what you are asking here, Mook, but Bonderman will have the best yr from the 3 you mentioned. Also, looking at last yrs %s isnt gonna help you much. With a defense behind them this yr and a hall of fame C behind the plate, Its pretty safe to assume that all 3 of those pitchers will have better yrs than last yr.

I hope this wasnt some subtle attempt to make fun of the Tigers SPs. They are better than last yrs numbers show.


I'm not making fun of the Tigers Cornbread (at least I didn't think that I was being subtle). I've just read the posts from all of the Tiger fans defending this signing.

With pitching like the Tigers have, the spending of $40M on Pudge is irresponsible in the extreme. If I was a Tiger's fan I'd be pissed off.

That is a pitchers park (25th in runs per game, 24 in HR per game and 27 in BA) and these kids are getting the crap knocked out of them. Why not admit that they should not be out there. They should have been in the minors last year honing their craft and brought along slowly.

Conejo was absolutely shelled during preseaon last year but he still started 32 games and pitched just under 200 innings.

They are wasting good young arms when they could spend a little on pitching until these kids learn what they are doing.

Please do not try to argue that Pudge will help the pitching.

Pudge could help the pitching by giving the $40 M back so that the Tigers could get Batista, Tomko, Stephenson, Rogers, Quantrill etc. to eat some innings until these kids are ready. Ask the Rangers how much A-Rod helped their pitching.


Actually ONE starter wont help them but Pudge could make ALL of the pitchers they have better. It was actually the perfect signing...
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