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holliday vs vlad

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Re: holliday vs vlad

Postby George_Foreman » Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:50 pm

djxskillz wrote:i'd rather have atkins and helton behind me than gary mathews and kotchman....anyday all day.
I'll give you GMJ, but have you seen Kotch's numbers lately? He's definitely out-hitting Atkins, and my instinct is that he's out-hitting Helton as well. *checks* Yep. .960 OPS for Kotch vs. .925 for Helton.

Also, "protection" in the lineup doesn't matter.
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Re: holliday vs vlad

Postby Secret Avatar » Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:30 am

Holliday was a borderline 1st rounder this year and, if he keeps it up, is a lock for 1st round in 2008. Personally, I think he's top 10 right now. The man is a beast and I only see him getting better.
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Re: holliday vs vlad

Postby rjforlife » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:33 am

2008 top ten ( in no particular order)

pujols
arod
reyes
m-cab
utley
soriano
h-ram
santana


then its a free for all with beltran vlad holliday crawford sizemore fielder wright

any of the final 7 could make it to the top ten as well as a few others....but holliday is in contention for sure. ;D
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Re: holliday vs vlad

Postby The Guru » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:06 am

rjforlife wrote:2008 top ten ( in no particular order)

pujols
arod
reyes
m-cab
utley
soriano
h-ram
santana


then its a free for all with beltran vlad holliday crawford sizemore fielder wright

any of the final 7 could make it to the top ten as well as a few others....but holliday is in contention for sure. ;D

i wouldn't consider utley or santana in that top 8. Probably drop soriano out of it also. put in vlad, holiday, crawford
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Re: holliday vs vlad

Postby RyeWhiskey » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:14 am

1. Due to Vlad's lack of speed on the basepaths this year, Holliday becomes more valuable.
2. Holliday does not belong in any top-10, and neither does Vlad or any other 4 cat-OF.
Think about it:
Pujols, ARod, Reyes, HanRam, MCab, Utley, Santana, Peavy: there's 8 (we can debate Peavy elsewhere, but he's in for me):

Then there's talk of putting Holliday/Vlad before Sizemore or Crawford? I don't think so. Those 2 make out the top-10 due to their 5 category production. Holliday's excellent AVG does not make up for 40+ SBs...
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Re: holliday vs vlad

Postby angelo285 » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:55 am

Sizemore > Holliday, Vlad, and Crawford

I also believe Crawford is overrated by many fantasy owners. I'd take Rollins 10 picks later and have better/equal power numbers with a slight decrease in SB (from an SS rather than OF on top of it) any day. But I guess that's neither here nor there.
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Re: holliday vs vlad

Postby Laean » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:02 am

djxskillz wrote:yeah but vlad has history by his side ... holliday has had one good year. If holliday keeps up what he is doing right now...i wouldn't be surprised if holliday was taken before vlad next year. I can see him going early 2nd round....maybe in some leagues he'll go late first. But top 5?? no way....you see holliday going before the likes of Arod, pujols, reyes, crawford, mcab, utley, santana? i don't...


i agree with you somewhat. holliday is a 1st round pick for me next year. only reason he wasn't this year was because the lack of a track record. 2 years is enough track record for me.

i do see holliday going before crawford (overrated - people keep saying he'll hit 20+ bombs eventually, but hasn't yet and isn't on track to this year either; a glorified rafael furcal), and on even par with mcab (holliday has shown more power than mcab - never hit more than 33 homers, he might eventually, but i want to see it first before taking him over a guy who's actually done it already; holliday and mcab's average is the same), and maybe santana. reyes better start hitting some homers and prove that his powersurge last year wasn't a fluke. otherwise, i might take holliday over him too.

arod and pujols are still the two top monsters of the game of course.

i think utley's 2b eligibility puts him over holliday.
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Re: holliday vs vlad

Postby Laean » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:05 am

bigh0rt wrote:
djxskillz wrote:yep i own vlad and holliday and i feel more confident in holliday to produce numbers....probably because holliday actually has some protection in atkins and helton and he has great lead off hitters in taveras and matsui whereas vlad has no protection...i also would probably pick holliday before vlad in future drafts

Figgins has a higher career OBP than both Taveras and Matsui and is a bigger base stealing threat than both. Orlando Cabrera is having a great year coming off of a very solid 2006, OBP of .379 on the year. Gary Matthews Jr. has been a much better player than Atkins not to mention Hawpe's stellar .224 AVG whenever they face a lefty. The Angels also have a better bottom of the order than the Rox do. Not sure where you got Vlad having no lineup around him, unless you just think guys like Kendrick, Kotchman, Willits, etc. are bums but I'd probably take the Angels lineup over Colorado's all day.


i agree with everything, except i think it's unfair to compare figgins' and taveras' career obps since taveras hasn't been in colorado all this time. he legitimately might be a .300 avg and higher obp hitter as long as he's in colorado.
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Re: holliday vs vlad

Postby Laean » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:08 am

djxskillz wrote:i'd rather have atkins and helton behind me than gary mathews and kotchman....anyday all day.


helton is going to be .300+ avg and 15-20 hrs. i think kotch will be .290+ and 20 hrs. not a big difference.

i gary matthews isn't legit, but then i also think atkins is overrated. he needs to perform more than one season to show that he's legit.
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Re: holliday vs vlad

Postby rjforlife » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:21 pm

zhutou wrote:these two are virtually identical in their production... except that vlad k's less. with that in mind, is it time to consider holliday as a viable first round option?



i just remembered i posted this:


MY TOP 50

Postby rjforlife on Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:06 pm
just been using VORP to try to tighten up my top 50 and with a little tweaking this is what ive come up with. feel free to critique but im mostly looking for people ive totally missed or have way too high or low. thanks :*)

1 Pujols 33.81
2 Arod 31.89
3 Santana 30.14
4 Soriano 28.88
5 Howard 27.36
6 Beltran 26.76
7 Reyes 26.36
8 Vlad 26.11
9 Ortiz 25.33
10 Holliday 24.85 I know this is really high.


thought that was funny.....had him right at 10 preseason...have to say it hasnt changed much.
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